Roller cam 351 questions

[PaxtonShelby]

Hi folks,

I have a few questions about F4TE ( I think that's the casting # ) 351 roller cam blocks / motors... I think these blocks were made from 1994 thru the early 2000's until the mod motors came out. From what I've heard, the F250's and E250's of that timeframe all had the roller cam setup, and the F150s had the roller block - but used a hydraulic flat tappet ( non-roller ) cam setup. So all the blocks of that era are the same, but the only motors that actually had roller cams were the F250s and E250s.

What would a nice F4TE 351 roller cam block be worth, assuming it is a standard bore and in good used condition?

What would be a fair price for a complete 351 roller motor - 38k miles - complete from intake to pan - with wiring intact - from a 1999 E250 van?

Now - what kind of power can a 351 roller block safely handle? If I were to build a nice 383/393/408 stroker and add 10 lbs of boost ( supercharger ) to it, I'd hope to make 550-600 streetable horsepower or maybe even a little more. Are the roller blocks capable of handling that? I've heard they're good to 700+ horsepower, but don't have any proof of that.

Thanks in advance for the help. Now, what do you think???

[biminiLX]

Ron:
I helped my youngest brother get a roller block and we found one in an F250 at the junkyard. We were going to have it rebuilt so we didn't care about the mileage but I believe he paid $250 for the longblock (no acc. or wiring). It his case it was a roller cam but I've also heard what you mentioned that not all roller blocks have roller cams (not that you'd be using the truck roller cam anyway right ? :) ). You do get the lifters and hold-downs if it has a roller cam though.
As far as power, you normally see the 500hp for 302s and 700hp for 351s as far as stock block power goes. I think the most important things are tune and max RPM.
The nice thing about a stroked 351 in the 400" range is that you don't need high rpm. I make about 1000 under 6000rpm and I like that :)
Sounds like a very cool project with reasonable goals. I like the theory to build an efficient NA motor and then add boost. You can easily make a 500hp very street friendly 408 and make your goal with less than 10psi (but not all 10psi is the same as its about air flow at that boost).
Let me know if you have any other questions, I like spending other peoples money :)
-J

[PaxtonShelby]

Thanks J! I knew you'd have some good info for me!

Hey - I still have those AOD parts if you're interested. Cheap!!! :goodidea:

[HidalgoGT]

Yup the short block i had was a f4te and rated for 700hp safely.

[mlowry1260]

Hi folks,

What would be a fair price for a complete 351 roller motor - 38k miles - complete from intake to pan - with wiring intact - from a 1999 E250 van?

Now - what kind of power can a 351 roller block safely handle? If I were to build a nice 383/393/408 stroker and add 10 lbs of boost ( supercharger ) to it, I'd hope to make 550-600 streetable horsepower or maybe even a little more. Are the roller blocks capable of handling that? I've heard they're good to 700+ horsepower, but don't have any proof of that.

Thanks in advance for the help. Now, what do you think???

Hi Ron,

I'd second what J said on power. A n/a 408 w/450-500 rwhp on pump gas is very doable & a blast to drive. It just takes a well matched combination. J & I can steer you to the right people to put together a the right combination of parts.

What do you want to do with the motor, is it for the '65 or the fox body?

If you have the time, check out the www.hardcore50.com (http://www.hardcore50.com) SBF forum. There are some very capable builders there that offer advice. The bulk of the list is drag racing oriented but, these guys do street/strip & road racing motors too. A quick search there on 408 combinations will yield page after page of threads on various combinations from mild to wild.

We have to meet up at a cruise this year. I have a lot more time now as I was just laid off after 19 years on the job.

[Rodeheaver's]

Ron:
I helped my youngest brother get a roller block and we found one in an F250 at the junkyard. We were going to have it rebuilt so we didn't care about the mileage but I believe he paid $250 for the longblock (no acc. or wiring). It his case it was a roller cam but I've also heard what you mentioned that not all roller blocks have roller cams (not that you'd be using the truck roller cam anyway right ? :) ). You do get the lifters and hold-downs if it has a roller cam though.
As far as power, you normally see the 500hp for 302s and 700hp for 351s as far as stock block power goes. I think the most important things are tune and max RPM.
The nice thing about a stroked 351 in the 400" range is that you don't need high rpm. I make about 1000 under 6000rpm and I like that :)
Sounds like a very cool project with reasonable goals. I like the theory to build an efficient NA motor and then add boost. You can easily make a 500hp very street friendly 408 and make your goal with less than 10psi (but not all 10psi is the same as its about air flow at that boost).
Let me know if you have any other questions, I like spending other peoples money :)
-J
X2, the only thing I am unsrue about is what those blocks came in.... I have been in junk yards before and spotted a 95-96 f-250 and tore it down to find its a non roller block, i myself have only ever seen a few roller 351w blocks, and i used to be a huge junk yard diver!! I also tore down a 96 E-350 van with a 351w, only to find another non roller 351w block!!! Maybe its just my bad luck, but i have never been able to find one when i was looking for one..

[PaxtonShelby]

Hey Mark - thanks for the great info. And sorry to hear about the job - I know things out there are a mess right now and a lot of folks are on pins and needles day-to-day. Good luck finding a new gig.

Meeting up at a cruise sounds like a good idea. I go to the cruise at the Kennedy Giant Eagle a few Sundays each month - it's not a very big cruise, but close and convenient. And of course I'll be at the Pittsburgh Vintage Grand Prix where I run the American Car show in Schenley Park on July 18-19.

I'm not ready to start building a new motor...yet, and fortunately the 5.0 in my '66 is hanging in there, even though it does use oil. I think the guy who built it for me set it up a bit loose on the rings. But I have come across a deal on the bare 351 roller block as well as a complete 351 roller motor, and I figured I could pick them up and have them for when I am ready. The plan is to eventually build a 351-based stroker for the '66 in my avatar. I'd like to put my Paxton back on after the swap, but I'm not sure if it can handle the extra cubes. If not, it'll go on my wife's '66 GT :)

I'll have to check out the link you posted. I have a few really good references for an engine builder - 955 Automotive in Erie. The guy there builds a lot of 351 stroker motors for local circle track guys ( he built an awesome 408 for a friend who won the Senior Series on dirt a few years ago ), and he built the 347 stroker for Bob ( 94Cobra ) and he's thrilled with it ( and I can vouch for how well it runs!:goodidea:). His prices seem very reasonable as well. But I'll certainly shop around before I pull the trigger. I also know Tim does great work. Once I figure out the exact motor combo I'll have to figure out who is going to do the build. I'm probably about 2 years from that point though, as once I do the motor, I'll have to upgrade my tranny, change headers, beef up the 9" rear from stock 28 spline to aftermarket 31 spline, etc., etc...

Thanks again for the info. I hope to pick up the block this weekend. :hyper:

[PaxtonShelby]

X2, the only thing I am unsrue about is what those blocks came in.... I have been in junk yards before and spotted a 95-96 f-250 and tore it down to find its a non roller block, i myself have only ever seen a few roller 351w blocks, and i used to be a huge junk yard diver!! I also tore down a 96 E-350 van with a 351w, only to find another non roller 351w block!!! Maybe its just my bad luck, but i have never been able to find one when i was looking for one..

Thanks Tim - maybe my info wasn't 100% right then. I remember something about the 250HD F-series having the roller, but that doesn't explain why the E350 you saw wasn't a roller.

Can you explain the benefits of going solid roller? I'm far from an expert, but I thought solid lifter motors needed valve lash adjustments frequently. I guess I can go solid roller in a roller block?

Thanks again for the info - I'm just trying to do some "homework" here!:thmbsup:

Oh - and have fun at your dyno day tomorrow!!!! :highfive:

[Rodeheaver's]

Thanks Tim - maybe my info wasn't 100% right then. I remember something about the 250HD F-series having the roller, but that doesn't explain why the E350 you saw wasn't a roller.

Can you explain the benefits of going solid roller? I'm far from an expert, but I thought solid lifter motors needed valve lash adjustments frequently. I guess I can go solid roller in a roller block?

Thanks again for the info - I'm just trying to do some "homework" here!:thmbsup:

Oh - and have fun at your dyno day tomorrow!!!! :highfive:


I kinda think its a mixed barrel of nuts with these roller 351w blocks... Or maybe i just cant seem to find one when i need one....:rolleyes:

And solids dont need adjusted quite as bad a people say, not with todays technology... If you race the car every weekend, then yes you should adjust them alot to stay dead on your game, but if your gonna treat it how you treat your other cars then no, you should not have to do it but maybe once or twice a year..

[94Cobra]

I would buy the block for sure Ron if I were you. :thmbsup:

You won't lose money on it even if you never build it. It might be worth more as scrap than you are able to buy it for.

[Killercanary]

Its been a while but I thought there was only 1 or two model years where the van's had the roller block. '94 sticks out in my head as the year to look for if you want to find a roller 351 in a JY van.

[PaxtonShelby]

That's what I'm thinking Bob - it's not so much that I'm ready to build a motor - just that this deal is staring me in the face at the moment! :goodidea: All the 351 roller blocks I've seen for sale are significantly more expensive than this one. If nothing else, it'll make a nice end-table for the next few years!!! :slaphappy:

Thanks Paul - I've heard that all the 93 or 94+ 351s were roller blocks, but only the F250s and E250s actually came with the roller cam setup. The other ( lower ) models supposedly were roller blocks - but didn't have the roller cams - just hydraulic flat-tappet cams. Sounds like Ford was trying to save some $$? Supposedly you the blocks are all tapped for the lifter spiders, so once you get a spider and roller lifters you're good to go. I'm trying to confirm all of this - I'll post whatever I find out. There seems to be a TON of info on the hardcore5.0 site that Mark mentioned - hopefully I'll have some time to dig into it this weekend.

[biminiLX]

We got ours out of a '97 F250 but like Tim said I've heard it can be a crap shoot.
If you're not racing it or wanting high rpm (not good with stock block anyway) stick with the hydraulic roller. A tight lash solid roller is fine IMO for street use but I think you'll be better off with the HR and no maintenence. I use a HR and stock replacement lifters/factory hold-downs.
As far as your blower goes I have no idea what your's is rated at or if it can be upgraded.
A well built 408 and even 5-6psi will easily do 600hp and be an animal on the street.
-J