Looking for input on an important decision for my '95 'vert... LONG

[Killercanary]

As many of you know I bought a PTK turbo kit for my car a number of years go. It was a top notch kit complete with a swain coated hot side, a turbosmart e-boost controller, and a T64e turbo. I then got busy and built my 331ci dart block as the foundation for this. Since then I added better heads, an AEM stand alone, 6 pt roll bar, etc which are all things I deemed necessary prior to installing the turbo kit. I also picked up a T76 turbo along the way too as I thought the T64e may be on the small side for this combo. Since then the car has run so well NA that I haven't had much desire to complicate things with the turbo install. It has run a 11.5 at 121mph. BUT... I'm bored with it and I want a power adder on my car to take advantage of the $5K shortblock under its hood. Now for my dilemma.

-I will not put a cage in this car which is something required in 'verts at 10.99 ET.

-I only want a car that'll trap 130mph. Those that say this isn't enough are nuts. My car is a street/strip/show car and 130 is PLENTY fast and is more than enough to compete with 99% of non-track only cars.

-Cost to install turbo kit. One would think that since I own almost every piece of the turbo build puzzle that it'd be an easy and relatively inexpensive swap. I figure I'll need >$3000 to put the turbo on. In my car the power level will be through the roof with the turbo and as such I'll need a new fuel tank, pump, lines, rails, regulator, etc. I'll also need larger injectors (I'm leaning toward high impedance 80's). I need to swap my 4.10 gears for either 3.27's or 3.31's. I'll need a new cam, lifters, and possibly pushrods. I may also need to pay for a tune. Although I feel confident tuning with the AEM, I don't feel confident using my car as a guinea pig to tune a 700+hp forced induction monster.


This brings me to my dilemma. I own almost everything needed to install the turbo kit, and a turbo mustang is something I've always wanted, but the funds needed to complete the install to my liking and the power output I'll likely see from it are both too much. I don't want a 700hp car as I don't want to start breaking everything else on the car that I have already upgraded. Since my goal is 10.99/130mph, I don't need all of this power. I could put the T64e on and it'd help me, but I don't like that idea.

I recently spoke to a friend that is going to be selling an S trim with low miles on it. My thought was to possible sell the turbo kit, send the S trim to vortech to have the Si upgrade done, and put it on the car. i can then pulley it for however many lbs of boost it'll take to hit my goals, it is a much simpler installation, and ultimately it'll be a lot cheaper as I could leave the cam be for now and only swap the gears. I also think that if I keep it an S trim for the time being and run 6lbs or so of boost that the car's factory fuel tank, lines, and rails would be OK. I'd still need injectors, but I have a HP walbro 255 intank in the cobra that I could put into the 'vert. This would hopefully get me into low 500ish RWHP and be in the safe zone without having to upgrade the entire fuel system. I'm really leaning this way right now if the S trim can be had reasonably.

What are your thoughts? Having two cars has also been a factor in this. if I only had the one then I could more easily swing the $3K to install the turbo, but since I have another money pit I can not afford to do it anytime soon.

[MBH]

-I will not put a cage in this car
-I only want a car that'll trap 130mph.
that sounds strangely familiar :rofl:

Any chance of doing it in 2 parts? Like do turbo/cam/rockers/pushrods now and run a lower boost, then fuel system next year? That way the power won't be completely ludicrous and you'll have some money left over from doing it all at once if something breaks unexpectedly.


If having a turbo mustang is a dream, then if it's feasible I'd say follow it. The car nut in me is screaming do it :goodidea:

[Killercanary]

that sounds strangely familiar :rofl:

Any chance of doing it in 2 parts? Like do turbo/cam/rockers/pushrods now and run a lower boost, then fuel system next year? That way the power won't be completely ludicrous and you'll have some money left over from doing it all at once if something breaks unexpectedly.


If having a turbo mustang is a dream, then if it's feasible I'd say follow it. The car nut in me is screaming do it :good idea:



Not really Bo. Boost creep, boost spikes, stuck wastegates, etc scare me too much to run the turbo without the complete fuel system as I know even with a small boost blower I'll be near the edge of what is safe. The blower doesn't have these problems as it will only make the boost it is pulleyed for. The turbo stang has been a dream, but from where I stand the headaches and possible problems that can come with it at the power levels I'm likely to see have me a bit uneasy. I now feel it is completely overkill for my goals. I didn't feel this way when I set out on this build as I never thought it'd run as good as it does NA. Since this is a street car the simpler I keep it the more I'm likely to enjoy it. I do fear I may look back on this in a number of years and regret not putting the turbo on as I always wanted one, its just at this moment it seems like a better idea to run a basic blower setup to reach my goals... but since I'm not sure myself that is why i asked for input. I really do not want a car that is too fast to enjoy, which I firmly believe can happen. My goal is 130mph trap speeds, and 10.99 would be nice to see at least once. i want that in a simple package that is street-able and reliable with as little maintenance as possible. I know I want my cake and to eat it too, but I think its a reasonable request given where I'm at already.

[yeahloh95]

you have the turbo, bolt it on , if you don't like, it take it off and bolt-on a blower

[SonofaBish]

Not really Bo. Boost creep, boost spikes, stuck wastegates, etc scare me too much to run the turbo without the complete fuel system

This really shouldn't be a problem as long as you have a quality wastegate and a quality boost controller.... I'm sure it has happened to people, but i wouldn't consider it something to worry about.... i dunno, maybe that's just me...

I agree with Bo... go with the turbo kit at lower boost, and then upgrade in the future...

[bgblockelcamino]

honestly turbo is way to go. just run a low boost setup with t76 and 7-9psi should net you around 5-550 pretty easily esp with stick shift.

[Black Vert]

Go turbo, you already have it. Boost is adjustable from inside the car which is nice, no having to change pulleys when you want a little more power :thumbsup:. You can run 10s easy with stock fuel rails and lines. I havent had any boost creep or spikes with my homemade kit, as long as you have a good wastegate and boost controller you'll be fine. A turbo stang will turn more heads than a supercharged one :goodidea:

[349Stroker]

put the turbo on it. run lower boost and leave it at that. 6psi on a turbo isn't much different than a 6 psi blower. Boost spikes aren't a big deal with quality parts and you don't have a headache of a damn belt. Turbos are much nicer IMHO


the green cobra you have seen has a stock fuel system with 60's and has trapped 133 mph and have had no issues with running out of fuel and that car has seen 25 psi at times

[349Stroker]

you have a roll bar in your car?

[gmkillr]

If you only want 600 rwhp or less then i'd either sell the T76 and use the T64 at low boost or sell all of it and get a blower set-up with a 3.33 pulley and you should be around 10lbs. or less and make 600 rwhp or less.

Sell.....
Turbokit- $3500
T-64 - $500
Now you have $4000 to buy a $1500-2000 blower kit and a $1200-2000 fuel system.

You'll easily be in the power range you want.
You'll have a fuel system to handle the H.P.

600 rwhp will definately get you 130mph trap speeds.:goodidea:

Good luck with your decision bud!:highfive:

[Martin0660]

I can not believe I'm saying this Paul, but the SC sounds like the right path with your stated goals in mind. Unless somewhere in your mind, you really do want to go further, then you will regret the SC as it will be more limited.

Now, the "handling" cobra is just begging for the left over turbo kit :D


that sounds strangely familiar

The difference is, that he does have a 6 point roll bar so he is legal, and more importantly, safe below 11.50's (13.49 in the vert).


Oh and Troy you need a cage at 13.49 in a vert !!!!!

Not a cage, just a 6 point bar like he has. The cage isn't required to 10.99 in the vert.

[pwtmxracing]

whats wrong with your cam and valve train u dont really need all thoes fancy turbo cams. call the guys at forced inductions they will help u out.

[frankstang]

It's a nice dilemma to have.

It sounds to me like you really want a high HP turbo car. You already have the kit so you're way ahead of the game. I'd wait until the money for a proper fuel system is a little less painful to spend, then bolt it all up and ride around with a silly grin.

If you want to limit the power with the bigger turbo, there are ways to do that but still have the option of turning up the wick when you want to go further with it.

Superchargers are great, but I'd chuck mine for a nice turbo setup in a hot second.

[wick]

You can always piece together the fuel system over time. Thats what I have been doing. Stock lines will hold 600 hp all day long. A turbo would be a nice way to go. I myself like the blower though. You can also run a wastegate with the blower, pulley it up and get similar results as you would with a turbo minus the underhood heat. So, to sum it up, I would do the blower if its available from your buddy, upgrade to the Si, run an intercooler, BOV and wastegate with a blow through meter. Sell the turbo and use the monies torwards the extra needed parts. Get an 8" lower and a 3.33 upper 8 rib pulley set up and belt slip would be minimal at best. The wastegate it meerely an option, not needed. 60's would be more than enough for 600+ but if you want to later get more then go with 80's. You can always sump your stock tank and run a dual external pump set up later on like mine.

[MBH]

The difference is, that he does have a 6 point roll bar so he is legal, and more importantly, safe below 11.50's (13.49 in the vert).

I agree with you a lot on this post, however cars are just faster these days and those numbers might be slightly lagging behind the automotive industry as a result - ex: A ZR1 is a legitimate 10 second car straight from the factory and the Z06 with a decent driver will also need a cage straight from the factory.

I'm not debating whether or not the roll bar is safer, it is. Some people don't want roll bars in their car for a myriad of reasons in a street/strip/show car, like Paul has, where it won't be as big of an issue as it won't be run at the track very often

[Black Vert]

You can always piece together the fuel system over time. Thats what I have been doing. Stock lines will hold 600 hp all day long. A turbo would be a nice way to go. I myself like the blower though. You can also run a wastegate with the blower, pulley it up and get similar results as you would with a turbo minus the underhood heat. So, to sum it up, I would do the blower if its available from your buddy, upgrade to the Si, run an intercooler, BOV and wastegate with a blow through meter. Sell the turbo and use the monies torwards the extra needed parts. Get an 8" lower and a 3.33 upper 8 rib pulley set up and belt slip would be minimal at best. The wastegate it meerely an option, not needed. 60's would be more than enough for 600+ but if you want to later get more then go with 80's. You can always sump your stock tank and run a dual external pump set up later on like mine.

Why would you put a wastegate on a supercharged engine :huh: . A wastgate bypasses exhaust to the turbo, slowing it down to regulate boost as needed.

[yeahloh95]

you put a waste gate on to limit the upper boost level, but also allowing you to run a smaller pulley to get boost sooner and then being able to control the upper limit with a boost controler.

[wick]

you put a waste gate on to limit the upper boost level, but also allowing you to run a smaller pulley to get boost sooner and then being able to control the upper limit with a boost controler.

:thmbsup:

[sutyak]

Personally, I think that's a bunch of $ to spend to shave .5 seconds off your 1/4 time.
I say just stay N/A and save yourself the potential FI headaches.
Yeah I know I have a turbo and I'm supposed to say go FI, but just shooting straight.
I'd personally sell all the turbo parts and put the $ elsewhere, or set my goals higher than 10.99 and go with the cage...

[95riosnake]

Unless you just can't part with your desire for a turbo, I think what Rob (gmkillr) suggested is going to be a lot less headache. It seems you are already hesitant about the complexity/amount of work necessary/cost of the build, and it is likely it will end up more in the end. Of course I don't have a desire for a turbo so it's easier for me to say pass on the snail lol. I've always been a fan of the simplicity of blowers. My .02