Blocks : Dart vs FRPP vs World product vs other ??? Vote here

[Slow5.0]

Name good aftermarket blocks ,whats HP/TQ rating ,up or downs for each one

Dart
Sportsman 302
R302
World product
???

BTW i talkin about 302 aftermarket blocks

[Viper_ed]

Interested in seeing some of the feedback here since I will be purchasing one for my 88 GT.

[yeahloh95]

the new boss 302 block should be good but it is too new to have any info on yet i have heard they will be a little cheaper than the dart .:woot1:

[Viper_ed]

the new boss 302 block should be good but it is too new to have any info on yet i have heard they will be a little cheaper than the dart .:woot1:

I haven't really read much on it yet, but will it be a replacement for the R302 or is it a additional product offering? If so, what makes it different from the R302?

[Rodeheaver's]

the darts and the world are both great blocks, the sportsman block are only recommended for like 4-500hp, the r302 blocks are way stronger and are up there with the dart blocks, but i think that new boss 302 block is where its at... all of these blocks are siamese blocks except for the sportsman.

[Rodeheaver's]

I haven't really read much on it yet, but will it be a replacement for the R302 or is it a additional product offering? If so, what makes it different from the R302?
well, the r302 only hs 4 bolt cps on 2,3,4, and you can only stroke it to 363ci, and the boss block is way stronger, or so i have read.

[Viper_ed]

well, the r302 only hs 4 bolt cps on 2,3,4, and you can only stroke it to 363ci, and the boss block is way stronger, or so i have read.

I am positive I read that the Boss Block only has 4 bolt caps on 2,3,4 as well. I know that the Dart Sportsman Block has the same configuration as well, where the Dart Iron Eagle has ALL 4 bolt mains.

[gmkillr]

Ive seen in a few places the new ford racing boss blocks go for $15xx.00

[Viper_ed]

Ive seen in a few places the new ford racing boss blocks go for $15xx.00

I haven't seen any pricing yet, but I know Lou can get good deals on the Ford Racing Blocks. Last time I asked him, he didn't have any pricing info on the Boss blocks yet, but he did give me a hell of a good price on thr R302 block.

Also keep in mind that your machining cost will be higher for the Ford Racing block than the Dart. At the end of the day, I have heard that there is not much difference in the total cost between them.

[gmkillr]

List price is suppose to be in the $17xx range, but ive seen a few go on the corral in the $15xx range brand new in the crate.

[Killercanary]

From the research I did last year when I was building mine the world products block was good, but it was almost too beefy. It weighed more than the dart, and could potentially have header clearance issues with its extra material added to accommodate extra head bolt holes that I would never use. It was WAY overkill as the others could support all I ever planned to make and more.

I read too many mixed reviews on the R302 to make me comfortable with buying one. As Ed said, they required more machining too. There are MANY opinions on the ford sportsman block, most will say that its not much better than a stock production block, others stand by it and say its a great bang for the buck. IMO from everything I've read and heard, if you "think" you will need a new block to handle big power, don't half ass it with the sportsman block and just pony up for the dart/R302. The new boss block is too new yet to know how good it really is. If it lives up to the hype, it'll be a great option but after seeing all the hype that surrounded the ford sportsman block when it came out and how short it fell of its original claims, I'd opt to not be the guinea pig here and go with one of the tried and true blocks for the few hundred dollars difference there is between them.

I ended up buying a dart sportsman block. As was mentioned the sportsman block comes with 4 bolt mains on 2,3,4, and 2 bolt mains on the outer caps, the iron eagle has 4 bolts on all of the mains. The sportsman and iron eagle block are the exact same casting, its the machining that makes them different. The dart sportsman is machined to accept hydraulic lifters where the iron eagle is not. Since this is going in my street car and I have no intentions of spinning it beyond the limits of the hydraulic setup, this is the route I chose. The iron eagle also has a few differences in terms of oiling as well. Both are Siamese as was mentioned and can safely be bored to at least 4.125, although sonic testing has shown that some can go as high as 4.180"-4.200"

With the Scat 4340 forged internals, 4340 forged H beam rods with ARP 2000 rod bolts, forged pistons, and internally balanced rotating assembly my shortblock should be good into the 4 digit range in terms of power. My eventual goal is in the 600-700rwhp range when I'm done with everything.

A few things that I have noticed with my block are that the bell housing holes tapped into the block are a little shallower than the stocker and I will be forced to either get new bolts or run washers, I also noticed this with my timing cover. Some have had issues with the oil pump shaft bottoming out between the dizzy and the oil pump even though the dart block is supposed to be made to production tolerances there. Mine was OK, but it had to be checked.


I got my block and rotating assembly from Kevin at http://www.kskustoms.com He was GREAT to work with and I definitely recommend him.

[Pure Stock]

the new boss 302 block should be good but it is too new to have any info on yet i have heard they will be a little cheaper than the dart .:woot1:

# 397-M6010BOSS302 Ford Racing Engine BlockBOSS 302
# Cast Iron
# 8.200" Deck Height
# 4.000"-4.125" Bore Range
# Wet Sump
# Siamese Bore
# 2.248" Main Journals
# 2-Bolt Front Cap, 4-Bolt Main Caps on 2,3,4
More Details
$1,916.99

from jegs.

[Killercanary]

Here's a link to the boss block from Summit. It seems like they are trying to keep the profits high on these instead of discounting them where we all thought they would be.

http://store.summitracing.com/egnsearch.asp?N=700+400333+4294925232+4294839078+4 294908331+4294836890+4294784162+115+4294842631

[Viper_ed]

Here's a link to the boss block from Summit. It seems like they are trying to keep the profits high on these instead of discounting them where we all thought they would be.

http://store.summitracing.com/egnsearch.asp?N=700+400333+4294925232+4294839078+4 294908331+4294836890+4294784162+115+4294842631

That's a link to the Dart Blocks. Here's the Boss:

http://store.summitracing.com/egnsearch.asp?Ntt=boss+302+block&N=700+4294908331+400070+4294925232+115+4294839078&NeXID=5&Ntk=KeywordSearch

[Pure Stock]

I am positive I read that the Boss Block only has 4 bolt caps on 2,3,4 as well. I know that the Dart Sportsman Block has the same configuration as well, where the Dart Iron Eagle has ALL 4 bolt mains.

There is absolutely no advantage to having the 1 and 5 mains constructed with 4 bolt mains vs. 2 bolt mains. You will walk a four bolt cap before you get to the power level where you have main problems on the front and rear.

ive never seen a failure due to front or rear caps, and I've never heard of one. Even on blower motors, with a loaded snout. Frankly, the Dart Sportsman can take EVERY BIT of the power the regular dart block can. every single hp and every single rpm.

[Pure Stock]

As far as the sportsman block offering from FRPP, I've seen some main cap walk present in a 7,800 rpm hydraulic roller cammed EFI 347 c.i.d.

I've also been witness to stock blocks (girdled, 28 oz., light-weight rods and pistons) in N/A applications that live around the 8,000 rpm ceiling for more than one season.

IMHO, do not elect to go the cheap route when preparing the shortblock for assembly. Locate a machine shop who is reputable and understands your aspirations. Employ quality fasteners and DO NOT put stock replacement parts into a great foundation (block)

[yeahloh95]

I Have seen them for $1650 so far with a quick search:goodidea:

[Slow5.0]

Looks like Dart Sportsman block is way to go since Iron Eagle isn't machined to accept hydraulic lifters

Now lets talk about where to get one ,summitracing have only Iron Eagle blocks no Sportsman

Paul i checked ww.kskustoms.com and they don't have Dart blocks for Fords (only for Chevy's) or meybe i didn't look realy good ?


List price is suppose to be in the $17xx range, but ive seen a few go on the corral in the $15xx range brand new in the crate.

Is there anything wrong with those blocks from Corral

[Killercanary]

Ernan, Kevin is in the process of updating his website, and hasn't put up all of the ford stuff yet. Its best to call or email him with your needs. I assure you he can get you what ever it is that you want. For machine work, I HIGHLY recommend contacting Rick at http://www.rnhperformance.com


Joe, I agree with absolutely everything you said about the dart sportsman versus the eagle... suprisingly so does Dart! LOL!

[Killercanary]

That's a link to the Dart Blocks. Here's the Boss:

http://store.summitracing.com/egnsearch.asp?Ntt=boss+302+block&N=700+4294908331+400070+4294925232+115+4294839078&NeXID=5&Ntk=KeywordSearch

DOH, thanks for catching that Ed. I had too many windows open and copied the wrong link.

[Viper_ed]

So what are the takes on the R302 vs the Dart Sportsman?

[Pure Stock]

Some of the maching operations that both blocks will need.
1.Bored to size and honed
2.Mains line honed to size
3.Decks surfaced and or square decked to needed height.
4.Lifter bores checked and R302 will usually need a little.
5.The R block will need clearancing on all 347(3.4") and the Dart will need to be checked.

If you are concerned about weight the R block is a positive.(Max effort builds will benefit here)

*Some* R-blocks require an immense amount of work to get *right*. Bore can check in at 3.980 and some are not in the proper location. The block will need to be subjected to a line hone because of undersizing and the decks need to be squared. The spacing of the bores is contingent upon the rear surface of the main thrust area. A deck plate is utilized to center the boring machinery to correct the bore placement.

The placement of the lifter bores is *usually* where it needs to be. However, the size of the lifter bores *may* be another story.

Clearancing for as little as 3.4" of stroke *may* very well be necessary.

In conclusion, if the application is not a "MAX" effort race application and does *not* require some rule that will only allow Ford part numbers, by all means do the Dart Sportsman, run the factory hydraulic roller lifter guideplates and lifter guide plate hold down (spider) and save time and $$$$$.

[mikeymustang]

Dart Eagle ...good for about 2000 hp 4 bolt all caps
Dart Sportsman...good for about 1500..4 bolt on center 3 caps ends still 2 bolt.... different cam bearings you must get for Dart

Mike

[coralcoupe1993]

hummmm....this has me rethinking my 69 351w block :veryhappy: