Thoughts on ZL1 camaro?

[scott5]

Numbers been released 580hp.. Think this is finally the even competition for the gt500?

[speedracer]

2 fat over weight pigs

http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa324/JMiG3/2012_chevy_camaro_zl1.jpg

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh208/origtxcobra/2012%20GT500/73db1d38.jpg

[scott5]

Very true. They are around same weight and hp. So it should be a nice comparison.. I take the looks of the gt500 over the zl1 tho..

[speedracer]

I heard the ZL1 is going to weigh 4100lbs

[speedracer]

4200lbs thats 300 more than the GT500

http://rumors.automobilemag.com/2012-chevrolet-camaro-zl1-rated-at-580-hp-weighs-4200-pounds-74133.html

[03 OW SVT]

Very true. They are around same weight and hp. So it should be a nice comparison.. I take the looks of the gt500 over the zl1 tho..

Wow! you feeling alright? I thought you said you didn't like Mustangs in another thread?! Make up your mind son.;)

I'm torn, I like the looks of both of them, until i see the interior of the Camaro. Yuck!

[Seer]

2013 GT500, 620hp. 300lbs lighter... enough said.

[White5.0]

2013 GT500, 620hp. 300lbs lighter... enough said.


proof?

[Seer]

proof?

Still speculation, but theres been to many mule sightings for Ford to let Chevy be king for this generations.

http://www.caranddriver.com/news/car/11q1/2013_ford_mustang_shelby_gt500_to_have_camaro_zl1_ slapping_600-plus_horsepower-future_cars

This is just one of many quick things you'll find if you google or read other boards.

What do I think? I think it keeps its mod motor 5.4 and adds a TVS from the factory to get over 600bhp.

[Troll]

1 cam > 4 cams. :pepper:

no matter what way you guys lean, hp wars in detroit is a good thing.
a REAL good thing. :awsome: :awsome: :awsome:

I am amazed that it's gone on for the last 5 years or so with the new challenger, mustang and camaro. it's awesome no matter what.

now, we got a n/a 470hp 6.4L hemi, a sc 580hp 6.2L gm and a sc 600+(?)hp 5.8L(?) ford coming soon... good times indeed.

:3gears: :3gears: :3gears:

[scott5]

Dont forget adam that the new srt8 jeep is going to have over 600

[scott5]

2013 GT500, 620hp. 300lbs lighter... enough said.

Im talking Bout now.. Who knows whats in store next year ESP this becomes a tight race then both automakers will keep stepping up there game and like adam said that is a great thing. And if the 620 and 300 lbs lighter is true then the race will be like it is now btw the c6 z06 and the gt500 cause the differences are nearly the same

[scott5]

Wow! you feeling alright? I thought you said you didn't like Mustangs in another thread?! Make up your mind son.;)

I'm torn, I like the looks of both of them, until i see the interior of the Camaro. Yuck!

Kev you know me well enough to know how i am hahaha

[Seer]

Im talking Bout now.. Who knows whats in store next year ESP this becomes a tight race then both automakers will keep stepping up there game and like adam said that is a great thing. And if the 620 and 300 lbs lighter is true then the race will be like it is now btw the c6 z06 and the gt500 cause the differences are nearly the same

According to that article the 2012 Camaro ZL1 won't hit lots till February 2012. Ford will be releasing their 2013 Mustangs in March/April 2012. So they both will get sold at the same time.

Edit: now when I say the GT500 is 300lbs lighter, I don't mean from it's current weight to now, I mean it's 300lbs lighter than a ZL1 Camaro.

[Sonic03snake]

If I had to choose... id take the Shelby on looks alone. I was a hardcore camaro guy for years but just don't care for the look of the new ones. The challenger is the best done retro imo

[PaxtonShelby]

4200 pounds - really? Jeez - that's more than a 2003 Mercury Marauder! (4165 lbs )

[03 OW SVT]

Imagine if these cars only wayed as much as a 5.0 notch from the late 80's early 90's with this amount of power. They'ed be mid 10 second cars.

[ModularMike]

I would take one GT500 over 5 Camaro's any day of the week.

[speedracer]

Imagine if these cars only wayed as much as a 5.0 notch in the late 80's early 90's with this amount of power. They'ed be mid 10 second cars.
There are a few threads on SVTP about the 2014 Mustang being smaller and lighter and a lot of the idiots start talking Mustang II... I'd give a lung both kidneys (they make stones anyways) and a nut for a 3300-3400lb GT500 or preferably a 2014 SVT Cobra :bouncy:

[Mark Aubele]

You will never again have a 3300lb. Mustang. As small as the 1M BMW is, it still weighs around 3300, and if Ford made the Mustang that size people would bitch and moan because it is so small. But Chevrolet has been providing 3200ish lb. RWD performance for years, the Corvette.

Not a big fan of the Camaros. My buddy has an SS, chances are another 150 horsepower wouldn't change my mind, but the first GT500 to impress me was the '11, so what do I know.

[Martin0660]

http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa324/martin0660pb/223181_205907146110247_100000728884379_622843_5228 831_n.jpg

[Steve-0]

I would take one GT500 over 5 Camaro's any day of the week.

X100000
Seriously.

[Mark Aubele]

I would take the 5 camaros, sell them, and buy a Z06, a CTS-V, and a BOSS 302.

[speedracer]

I would take the 5 camaros, sell them, and buy a Z06, a CTS-V, and a BOSS 302.
I would take the Z06, CTS-V and Boss 302 sell them for a Ford GT :yes:

http://i841.photobucket.com/albums/zz332/gl0422/geigercars_ford_gt-06.jpg

http://i841.photobucket.com/albums/zz332/gl0422/ford_gt_black_rear_widescreen_wallpaper_36695.jpg

[Mark Aubele]

I like the Ford GT because you if look at it crosseyed it makes 1000 at the wheels, but for a track car, meh. I'd rather have a Viper ACR. Can I change my choices?

[scott5]

For over 100k i will take a porsche gt2s

[03 OW SVT]

For over 100k i will take a porsche gt2s

Now your talkin son. Glad to see you do have some sense to ya.:D

[scott5]

But back on topic...

Do you guys feel the zl1 and the gt500 will be a better competition than the gt500 and the zo6?

[PaxtonShelby]

Ford GT = pure sex

[u1arunit]

But back on topic...

Do you guys feel the zl1 and the gt500 will be a better competition than the gt500 and the zo6?

Yes since they are similar type cars.

Btw I like the Challenger, ZL1, and GT500 in that order. Now if they chisel the looks of the GT500 and its weight when they redesign it I would be more interested in it.

[thedak]

My next car is going to have Magnetic Ride.

[Seer]

Yes since they are similar type cars.

Btw I like the Challenger, ZL1, and GT500 in that order. Now if they chisel the looks of the GT500 and its weight when they redesign it I would be more interested in it.


Weird, you like the Challenger and ZL1 over the GT500, which both outweigh the GT500 by a decent bit yet you dislike the GT500 due to its weight. Hmm..

Why don't we throw the Boss 302 into the mix as well? It seems to be running the same stock times as all three and out handles them by a large margin.

Take the modding arguement into the mix, it has a forged bottom end, and has no problem making over 800 to the wheels.

[scott5]

Theres a boss 302 making 800rwhp already? Who built that?

[Mark Aubele]

For over 100k i will take a porsche gt2s

Dude, they are $245,000+. :rolleyes:

[White5.0]

Dude, they are $245,000+. :rolleyes:

^this.

[White5.0]

Theres a boss 302 making 800rwhp already? Who built that?

my guess is that he is referring to the GT500

[Seer]

Evolution performance built a Boss making 834rwhp. All it has done is some fuel upgrades and a procharger. Its in the Nov 5.0 Magazine. Theres also a 785hp Boss 302 as well which has a KB Mammoth in Oct 5.0 Mustang.

Here's some fun facts about the Boss 302:

Fully forged bottom end
Out-handles the standard Porsche 911 Turbo (Hell the regular GT out does the new M3)
Has run bottom 12's show room stock, and 11.8 with drag radials

Can make over 750rwhp with ease with forced induction on a stock shortblock.


my guess is that he is referring to the GT500

nope... referring to the 444hp Boss 302 5.0L

[Mark Aubele]

Define outhandles. I love the Boss 302 and the GT, but that is a bit of a stretch. In a couple of tests the GT has come close to the M3 in laptimes, but to make a blanket statement like that isn't really accurate. And I don't think a Boss is going to outrun a new gen 911 Turbo on too many road courses, regardless of Motor Trend's LS lap times where they show the Boss to be faster around the track than the Z06. Still don't understand how they came to the results they did, smells fishy to me, considering the Z06 was 18 seconds faster around VIR than the GT, and the 911 was 11 seconds quicker IIRC. I guarantee the Boss isn't 11 seconds a lap faster than the GT.

[mustang50lx]

I would take the 5 camaros, sell them, and buy a Z06, a CTS-V, and a BOSS 302.

That CTS-V wagon is awesome. :awsome: I always loved wagons. It's just slightly out of my price range for a grocery getter. If they take one of the zeros off the end of the price I'll go buy one.

[Seer]

Define outhandles. I love the Boss 302 and the GT, but that is a bit of a stretch. In a couple of tests the GT has come close to the M3 in laptimes, but to make a blanket statement like that isn't really accurate. And I don't think a Boss is going to outrun a new gen 911 Turbo on too many road courses, regardless of Motor Trend's LS lap times where they show the Boss to be faster around the track than the Z06. Still don't understand how they came to the results they did, smells fishy to me, considering the Z06 was 18 seconds faster around VIR than the GT, and the 911 was 11 seconds quicker IIRC. I guarantee the Boss isn't 11 seconds a lap faster than the GT.

OMG stop the presses, Mark Aubele says one thing but countless professional drivers say another.

It's been tested and proven. I think the experts know a little bit more than you do.

It's been stated many times, the M3 and 11 5.0 are a driver's race around the corners. What is so hard to believe how both variants of the Boss 302 are world class handling cars? Oh because it's a Mustang? Perhaps you need a history lesson.

[Mark Aubele]

OMG stop the presses, Mark Aubele says one thing but countless professional drivers say another.

It's been tested and proven. I think the experts know a little bit more than you do.

It's been stated many times, the M3 and 11 5.0 are a driver's race around the corners. What is so hard to believe how both variants of the Boss 302 are world class handling cars? Oh because it's a Mustang? Perhaps you need a history lesson.

OK, have some data? Is this like the time you dropped Sam Strano's name but it turned out he wasn't even running the dampers you were pimping? And I thought the M3 outhandled the Mustang? Now it is a driver's race? What isn't?

And what countless professional drivers? Names? And what history lesson? I have quite a few wins, class records, and whatever else in Mustangs, but I am not going to spout bullshit online because I own (ed) one.

One of these days I am going to give up arguing with idiots on the internet.

[Seer]

OK, have some data? Is this like the time you dropped Sam Strano's name but it turned out he wasn't even running the dampers you were pimping? And I thought the M3 outhandled the Mustang? Now it is a driver's race? What isn't?

And what countless professional drivers? Names? And what history lesson? I have quite a few wins, class records, and whatever else in Mustangs, but I am not going to spout bullshit online because I own (ed) one.

One of these days I am going to give up arguing with idiots on the internet.go back and read some of the articles mr class champion. I'm.stating published facts. You're stating your beliefs based upon what you may have accomplished in a mid 80s mustang. I guess that makes you an expert on a 2012 boss.

[Mark Aubele]

Here is one, the M3 outlaps the '11 GT by 3 seconds, even beats the GT500. Your turn.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/10q4/lightning_lap_2011-feature/sortable_times_3a_complete_lightning_lap_times_200 6_to_2011_page_8

Class champion? What have you done? Post bullshit online? Guess you found something to win at. Congrats.

[Seer]

Here is one, the M3 outlaps the '11 GT by 3 seconds, even beats the GT500. Your turn.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/10q4/lightning_lap_2011-feature/sortable_times_3a_complete_lightning_lap_times_200 6_to_2011_page_8

Class champion? What have you done? Post bullshit online? Guess you found something to win at. Congrats.thanks you just proved my point it is a drivers race. Now go dig up some boss stuff racecar driver.

[Mark Aubele]

How did that prove it is a driver's race? I posted proof of an M3 outlapping a GT. Where is yours? I don't even know why I am arguing, I love the new Mustangs. Just not going to run around and claim they are the greatest handling cars available, makes no sense.

[Seer]

How did that prove it is a driver's race? I posted proof of an M3 outlapping a GT. Where is yours? I don't even know why I am arguing, I love the new Mustangs. Just not going to run around and claim they are the greatest handling cars available, makes no sense.who said that, I was only posting the facts about them. The gt hangs with the m3. The boss can run with the z06 and 911.

[Mark Aubele]

You actually said the Boss and GT outhandled the 911 Turbo and M3 respectively. I would agree they hang with them, and the GT on tighter tracks stock for stock is damn close to the M. Like I said, have no idea why this is an argument, I lust after both cars.

[speedracer]

who said that, I was only posting the facts about them. The gt hangs with the m3. The boss can run with the z06 and 911.
Watch the 2 video's and see if you want to keep that opinion


Hot Lap! 2012 Ford Mustang Boss 302 Laguna Seca - YouTube

Hot Lap! 2012 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 Centennial Edition - YouTube

[Seer]

Watch the 2 video's and see if you want to keep that opinion


Hot Lap! 2012 Ford Mustang Boss 302 Laguna Seca - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCMxgoWaq9Q)

Hot Lap! 2012 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 Centennial Edition - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wheEOSdDi9w)whats different between a centennial and a regular z06?

[speedracer]

whats different between a centennial and a regular z06?
Tires and brakes I think... and some fancy badging

[Seer]

Tires and brakes I think... and some fancy badgingI blame it on the badges.

[PaxtonShelby]

6.5 seconds difference - wow. The Z06 is a beast for sure. But I wonder how much the gap would close if you put the same sticky tires the Z06 was wearing on the Boss? Seemed like the LS Boss tires were making a lot more noise in the corners than those on the Z06.

[Terminated]

To put the Detroit HP wars into some perspective:

In 1992, the Camaro and Mustang were battling it out for supremacy of the 250 HP threshold. So yeah, it's definitely a good thing to see HP making a big comeback, even if it's on fat boxy turds like the new Camaro and Mustang.

[speedracer]

6.5 seconds difference - wow. The Z06 is a beast for sure. But I wonder how much the gap would close if you put the same sticky tires the Z06 was wearing on the Boss? Seemed like the LS Boss tires were making a lot more noise in the corners than those on the Z06.

The boss is still a big fat pig... I'm sure the pilot sport cup tires would help but were comparing stock un altered cars from the factory. I tink those tires are like $600 a piece

[Mark Aubele]

6.5 seconds difference - wow. The Z06 is a beast for sure. But I wonder how much the gap would close if you put the same sticky tires the Z06 was wearing on the Boss? Seemed like the LS Boss tires were making a lot more noise in the corners than those on the Z06.

The Boss comes from the factory wearing R-Compounds as well. The Pilot Sport Cup is probably very close to the Pirellis the Boss wears. The Z06 has over 50 more horsepower, the CG height is something like 6 inches lower, and it is 400 lbs lighter. The Boss is an awesome car but it isn't a Z06.

[u1arunit]

My next car is going to have Magnetic Ride.

Word! :awsome:


Weird, you like the Challenger and ZL1 over the GT500, which both outweigh the GT500 by a decent bit yet you dislike the GT500 due to its weight. Hmm..

Nothing weird about it, especially with regards to looks. It's all a personal preference.

Coming from an '04 Terminator with 663 RWHP I can really appreciate having a lighter car now. Weight and looks have always been reasons why I did not go directly to a GT500 when I sold the Cobra. Boss cars are cool but once again I must say that I am looking forward to the next Mustang body style change.

[Sonic03snake]

Im starting to get confused, I thought we were talking about Mustangs and Camaros?

[scott5]

To put the Detroit HP wars into some perspective:

In 1992, the Camaro and Mustang were battling it out for supremacy of the 250 HP threshold. So yeah, it's definitely a good thing to see HP making a big comeback, even if it's on fat boxy turds like the new Camaro and Mustang.

Agreed:awsome:


Im starting to get confused, I thought we were talking about Mustangs and Camaros?

True.

[Seer]

6.5 seconds difference - wow. The Z06 is a beast for sure. But I wonder how much the gap would close if you put the same sticky tires the Z06 was wearing on the Boss? Seemed like the LS Boss tires were making a lot more noise in the corners than those on the Z06.

The Boss LS is a lot closer to the standard Z06, I never knew about the Centennial edition until this thread.


Im starting to get confused, I thought we were talking about Mustangs and Camaros?

In that case, you won't need a GT500 to take down a ZL1 stock in the 1/4 or on a road course. You most likely will be able to do it with a Boss.

[RedCandyCoyote]

[QUOTE=Mark Aubele;290488]You will never again have a 3300lb. Mustang.




mine weighs 3400 stock...close enough...lol just sayin

[Troll]

Im starting to get confused, I thought we were talking about Mustangs and Camaros?

:laughing: yeah really! who cares? it's like going to the strip club and arguing over which naked monkey looks better. it's all good. some is just better. :awsome:

[u1arunit]

:laughing: yeah really! who cares? it's like going to the strip club and arguing over which naked monkey looks better. it's all good. some is just better. :awsome:

Way to be a thread killer Troll!!!! :laughing:

[scott5]

ZL1 did 7:41.27 in the nurburgring.... Ford gt did it in 7:52.00. .... Just saying

[SonofaBish]

ZL1 did 7:41.27 in the nurburgring.... Ford gt did it in 7:52.00. .... Just saying
Camaro must have took a 1 minute shortcut :rolleyes:

[speedracer]

There's about a 700lb weight difference between the 2 cars and the ZL1 is 10.5 seconds faster? Link to the proof please :)

[stevec5ws6]

Love the HP wars. but Speedracer said it.. two fat overweight pigs cars weighing over 3500 is silly especially performance cars. all of this stupid crap weighting them down is sad.

[speedracer]

I want a 2014-15 SVT Cobra (hopefully :) ) and if they weigh as much as the GT 500's do now I'm going to pass. There is no excuse for a 4200lb Camaro no matter how well it performs....

[scott5]

Theres no excuse for any performsnce car to be that heavy! Hell thats only 800 lbs less than my suv!!! I still dont see how they got to be so fat

[scott5]

I want a 2014-15 SVT Cobra (hopefully :) ) and if they weigh as much as the GT 500's do now I'm going to pass. There is no excuse for a 4200lb Camaro no matter how well it performs....

Another svt cobra to come out could sway me to get another ford

[scott5]

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=175148

[03 OW SVT]

Theres no excuse for any performsnce car to be that heavy! Hell thats only 800 lbs less than my suv!!! I still dont see how they got to be so fat

I'm guessing Scott all the safety and emissions BS, has a lot to do with the added weight.

[SonofaBish]

Wow, its definitely out of place on that list of cars....

And who wouldn't want a paint job like that? :rolleyes:

[Mark Aubele]

There's about a 700lb weight difference between the 2 cars and the ZL1 is 10.5 seconds faster? Link to the proof please :)

I would say the real difference is about 8 years in when they ran them. Plus GM has a habit of putting some incredible drivers in cars over there.

There is also video in the link of the lap.

[speedracer]

I would say the real difference is about 8 years in when they ran them. Plus GM has a habit of putting some incredible drivers in cars over there.

There is also video in the link of the lap.
I know that the driver mod is worth a 100 HP lol... 8 years meaning the advancement in suspension technology?

[Mark Aubele]

I know that the driver mod is worth a 100 HP lol... 8 years meaning the advancement in suspension technology?

Sorry for being cryptic...

What I meant by the 8 years comment is that the whole 'Ring thing came into vogue well after they ran that time in the GT. I think it would do quite a bit better than the time posted. A quick look at the list even has the same cars in a couple cases separated by 20+ seconds by differing drivers and conditions.

[u1arunit]

Just so that you guys realize.. There is no set timing system on the ring and some cars use standing start times, some use running start times, some do not even start in the same place. Not a really accurate place to time any car. It makes for good lying though. lol

[speedracer]

Just so that you guys realize.. There is no set timing system on the ring and some cars use standing start times, some use running start times, some do not even start in the same place. Not a really accurate place to time any car. It makes for good lying though. lol
Top gear's track and limited amount of stigs seems more like something you could use to compare one car to another with.

[Mark Aubele]

Just so that you guys realize.. There is no set timing system on the ring and some cars use standing start times, some use running start times, some do not even start in the same place. Not a really accurate place to time any car. It makes for good lying though. lol

They have gotten pretty standardized in the past few years though. If you go on Wikipedia you will see some times, with notations when the full course isn't used. Now, pretty much everyone does a running start on the full course. Anything past 5 years ago or so I wouldn't trust.

Car and Driver's Lightning Lap at VIR is another great resource for comparing different cars. They have run many over the past 3 years.

[Troll]

starting $54,095. :rolleyes:

http://www.chevrolet.com/camaro-zl1-sports-car/

[VaderGT]

so its $20,000 more for a super charger.
I mean atleast the GT500 is a different motor that can handle alot more then a GT..but this looks like you could just spend 6grand on a blower and a little on suspension and be about same car minus the badge. and for 10grand less probably

[speedracer]

The ZL1 has upgraded suspension too... The GM nutswingers can probably say what else is different from the regular mullet mobile.

[Slow01GT]

so its $20,000 more for a super charger.
I mean atleast the GT500 is a different motor that can handle alot more then a GT..but this looks like you could just spend 6grand on a blower and a little on suspension and be about same car minus the badge. and for 10grand less probably

No GM nutswinger here, just a fan of competition. The ZL1 has a different motor than a standard ss, magnetic ride, upgraded exhaust, aux oil coolers, bigger brakes, and different body and interior bits. I think thats most of the big things.

[White5.0]

its ok Ford is ready with the 2013 gt500:D

[Slow01GT]

No doubt. I am a huge fan of both so I hope they just keep getting faster

[Terreos]

Thoughts? Hate it. Sat in a 2010 camaro and hated the small rear window and side windows. Honestly if you can't see while driving a car its nothing but a death trap. Fix that and then we can talk how I like the new camaro's.

[travj31]

Thoughts? Hate it. Sat in a 2010 camaro and hated the small rear window and side windows. Honestly if you can't see while driving a car its nothing but a death trap. Fix that and then we can talk how I like the new camaro's.

You must hate the Ford GT's then haha jk

[Terreos]

You must hate the Ford GT's then haha jk

I can't officially say until I've sat it one. :D
But, honestly the Ford GT was a race car. Not a mass produced muscle car. You need to be able to see out the back window! How else are you gonna know if the cops are chasing you?

[speedracer]

Hitler finds out about 2013 GT500 - YouTube