Somethingclever's operation 65 Mustang DD - built and bought

[somethingclever]

Since the site has been slow figured I would start a thread on a car I have owned for about 17 yrs and only moved it from garage to storage to my barn over the course of that time.

This will be a cliffs-notes thread since this process started 2 years ago and is nearing completion at this point.

The idea is to drive this car rain/shine 9 mos/yr.

Car is a nothing special 6cyl auto 7.5" rear axle low-option deal which meant I will do to it as I wish.

It is a true early production 64.5 car, however.

Original light blue (forget Ford name) with 2-tone blue interior.

Car was wearing approx 50% of it's original 50yr old paint and the other 50% was some primer from a PO who thought he was going to paint the car himself but had little to no body work experience. Luckily he didn't actually "fix" anything - just spray bombed some primer over the original paint.

When I bought the car it did not run but was mostly complete and I bought it for the paltry sum of $750! Quite a steal even 17yrs ago considering this is an original California car for most of it's life and the underneath was essentially rust free and you can cut your fingers on the original stamping of the rear wheel wells - original paint no rust no bondo. Hard to find even 17 yrs ago much less find it today. I took 1 look at it at night with a flash light, saw the floors and frame rails were perfect and bought it on the spot. I did end up getting it to run on a gas can shortly after I bought it but never actually drove it...although I don't see why it wouldn't have.

So an engineer friend of mine has been dabbling in body work and has painted a few vehicles over the last 8 yrs or so and has been begging me to paint this car since it was fairly straight and mostly rust free. He did just finish a basket case 67 mustang open track car which needed extensive metal replacement so he is certainly no rookie.

2 yrs ago he came over the house so we could head to Fords at Carlisle and he brought his trailer too...which meant it was time to load it up no more delay.

Here it is on the trailer ready to head to Ohio.

[somethingclever]

A couple weeks later I headed out to his place to help with some of the 2 person dismantling stuff - engine/trans/rear/doors/hood/glass...type stuff.

[somethingclever]

It's really nice to work on non-PA classics. I think on the entire car, only 1 bolt had to be cut to remove.

All other bolts just simply...........unscrewed.

[Dan B.]

It's no fun unless the torches come out!!

That reminds my....my o2 tank ran empty last weekend.....:duh:

[2000GT]

What is going to be you powertrain of choice? Coyote?

[somethingclever]

What is going to be you powertrain of choice? Coyote?

No.


This is operation KISS.

I will update with drivetrain pictures but it's nothing exotic.

[somethingclever]

I would enjoy the fuel mileage of the coyote no doubt - but the cost to purchase/install and the work to remove shock towers and install an M2 type front suspension had me stick to keeping it simple.



1964.5 specific seatbelt mounting:

[somethingclever]

He was doing some body work as the remainder of the car was torn down:

[somethingclever]

when the mice take over - probably not much fresh air coming through those "fresh air ducts"

[somethingclever]

minimal rust but dents and dings in some tricky spots:

[somethingclever]

doors were definitely not as solid as I had hoped....ended up reskinning the doors to maintain the original door shells and their fit-up with the car.

[somethingclever]

And then alot of work with the sander to remove the original paint:

[86GT]

Holy cow, cool beans. So maybe a turbo 2jz ? Or did the Tokyo drift car have something else?
what ever you put in it I’m sure it will be sweet judging by these pics.

[GOT SVT]

great post

keep on updating us

[PaxtonShelby]

keep the updates coming John!!

[2000GT]

Can't wait to see its progress!

[somethingclever]

For alot of yrs I had planned on a 2.3T Ferd but that lost it's luster for me.

Maybe if Bob and I were neighbors that would still get the nod.

[somethingclever]

Most of the wiring harness was untouched and in amazing shape for it's age.

These taillight wires looked like new and were flexible like new as well.

I decided to keep the original harness in the name of KISS and even planned to run the original generator (64.5 specific).

Through my learning it turns out there are quite a few differences in the wiring between 64.5 Gen cars and the later Alt cars.

There are also lots of resources providing direction on converting a GEN car to ALT.

The top pic is of the 64.5 specific bullet style connectors from the column to the main harness.

[somethingclever]

Trunk we thought was perfect....just a little scale rust.

Until he removed the weatherstrip and found were water must have been accumulating when the car was driven. (I think it was off the road in the late 90s.)

The peek-a-boo rust was cut out, new metal pieces made up and welded in, and a skim of filler to pretty it up.

All rust on the car was cut out to clean metal, and new pieces welded in to the original ford stampings.

He tried to avoid repop stampings like the plague.

[somethingclever]

I am quite sure that trunklid had never been off the car before.

[Martin0660]

For alot of yrs I had planned on a 2.3T Ferd but that lost it's luster for me.

Maybe if Bob and I were neighbors that would still get the nod.

from what I had seen from a couple of early cars swapped to 2.3, they was also swapped to IFS to get the towers out too. Not sure it was 100% needed, but that’s how they was done.

even if we was close, I would talk you out of it, lol.

[somethingclever]

Cowl replacement on these cars is a big deal and common.

This one seemed to be super solid and still had paint on it.

[somethingclever]

The floors needed some small patches each side once they were hit with a wire cup brush to clean them up for paint.

They rusted from wet carpet - aka inside out.

Since the cowl was good the front windshield must have been leaking for some time.

Not surprising for sitting in California sun for the first half of it's life.

All metal was cut out, and new patch pieces welded in.

Concours is not needed for this DD.

[Dan B.]

A couple license plates woulda covered that.

[somethingclever]

A couple license plates woulda covered that.


I said concours was not needed.

Ghetto is never acceptable. LOL

[somethingclever]

from what I had seen from a couple of early cars swapped to 2.3, they was also swapped to IFS to get the towers out too. Not sure it was 100% needed, but that’s how they was done.

even if we was close, I would talk you out of it, lol.


Seems like a custom header would be easier and cheaper....but I have read that it is super tight with the OEM manfold and stock turbo. (maybe even some massaging necessary to towers.)

[Dan B.]

Ghetto is never acceptable. LOL

Hey....I resemble that remark!

:goodidea:

Ron is bringing his F150 up here in the next few weeks for rocker panel repairs. I've been stealing license plates for weeks!!

[somethingclever]

Hey....I resemble that remark!

:goodidea:

Ron is bringing his F150 up here in the next few weeks for rocker panel repairs. I've been stealing license plates for weeks!!


LOL!

Classic.

[somethingclever]

Since the car was in bare metal my buddy shot primer after a through wipe/down and cleaning of everything.

I am no body man but from the sounds of it, cleanliness for a quality paint job is as critical as it is for engine work.

Starting to look like something now.

[somethingclever]

This was cool - since there are so many 1st gen mustangs out there that had the factory radio removed and sheetmetal hacked up to fit an 8-track or cassette player, that the aftermarket has reproduced a nice fitting replacement dash piece. Since my plan was for a retrosound unit that looks mostly factory, he cut out the dash and welded in this new piece. I will say that the dash looks perfect and you would never know this was done.

[PaxtonShelby]

Hey....I resemble that remark!

:goodidea:

Ron is bringing his F150 up here in the next few weeks for rocker panel repairs. I've been stealing license plates for weeks!!

Hell yeah buddy! License plates don’t rust!

[Ares]

What the hell is this nearly rust free crap....

On a side note Black Cherry for the color :thmbsup:

Reminds me of my brothers first car. A '67 Mustang with straight six/auto I found in Pennysaver back in '96 for him for a nice $600. Neighbor gave him a 302 and we searched the bone yards for a v8 bell housing for the C4. Then he got us to take him to NJ to buy a wrecked '68(head on collision) for the V8 suspension and rear axle.

[yeahloh95]

very cool project cant wait for more updates its looking good so far

[somethingclever]

With the top side of the body in a good hold spot, he moved to the underside.

At some point the car had an undercoating applied (seemed like factory?) which was still sticking really well on the underside....he wanted to remove it for some fresh POR15 so I didn't argue.


Crazy clean for a rust belt guy.....


Tough to gauge the size of the undercoating/grime pile until you compare it to the jackstand 2' away from it.

[somethingclever]

The battery leaked at some point or over many years and ate through the battery tray and the 1 apron.

Probably could have gotten away with a patch piece but instead he welded in a new piece.

Additionally you can see he stitch welded the shock towers and front suspension (engine bay side and suspension side) to provide some additional rigidity to the car.

This is in case PaxtonShelby ever talks me into sticky tires and a track day.

[somethingclever]

He ended up shooting POR15 on the completed underside, wheel wells, and engine bay.

It looks pretty shiny in the pictures but it is semi-gloss or chassis black.

No good pictures of the painted underneath, but the paint laid about as nice on the bottom as it did on the top.

[Terminated]

Great thread to follow along to, keep posting the pics!

[somethingclever]

Also forgot to mention you can see in the picture in post 35 that the car had 67 and later mustang torque boxes added to it.

64.5-66 cars did not have torque boxes from the factory.

There is a diagonal piece that was forgot and later welded in place on each side and POR15'd again on the welds.

[Dan B.]

He may talk you into a track day.......but his car will still be on jackstands.

[Ares]

Wow that is clean underneath. Cleaner than my 2004 :no:

[somethingclever]

With the body work finished on all panels and the car, it was time to move onto color.

Paint color wasn't a tough choice for me.

I wanted a car that was mostly period correct.

Wimbledon White base/clear got the call in PPG products.

Once again the car gets a crazy wipe down and his "booth" gets a cleaning as well.

[somethingclever]

Thankfully no clowns ever jacked the car up at the factory rocker/pinchweld area.

[somethingclever]

Here is the car rolled out and next to his 68 (not 67) track car. (which is a riot)

[somethingclever]

Then he proceeded to paint the rest of the panels and parts.

[somethingclever]

At this point I think he was around 1 yr from original disassembly and approx 350 hrs of time.

[somethingclever]

The idea was to have the interior and trunk sprayed in the same color and to buy an interior that didn't have mismatched whites.

[somethingclever]

I used TMI products for the seats and they sent me some swatches to use for color comparison after I told them the color I was needing to match.

I didn't want Wimbledon steel bits on the interior and bright white seats as well on the interior.

That would just be poor planning.

This looked like a pretty good match.

[Ares]

That is a nice shade of white. Any other colors being used on interior?

[07v6vistablue]

Looks Great so far!

[Dan B.]

I've got some faded road signs that would match nicely.

[PaxtonShelby]

The battery leaked at some point or over many years and ate through the battery tray and the 1 apron.

Probably could have gotten away with a patch piece but instead he welded in a new piece.

Additionally you can see he stitch welded the shock towers and front suspension (engine bay side and suspension side) to provide some additional rigidity to the car.

This is in case PaxtonShelby ever talks me into sticky tires and a track day.

I’m sure you won’t need much persuasion.

[PaxtonShelby]

He may talk you into a track day.......but his car will still be on jackstands.

Hey - she is only on jackstands during the winter when I pull the wheels off.

[somethingclever]

While he was doing body work I did some small projects...

Rebuilt/new HVAC box, ducting, cables etc. (original blower motor)

Rebuilt door hinges (this project was a good excuse to run some permanent compressed air lines and get my blasting cabinet operational)

Went over the wiring harness and repaired as necessary (like 8 circuits?...LOL)

[somethingclever]

pics....

BTW - once again the bullet style connectors between column and main harness are 64.5 specific as well as the rest of the harness and turn signal switch for generator cars.

Additionally that means the steering wheels are also 64.5 specific.

In hindsight, I would have converted the harness and switch to 65+ style and had better selection for steering wheels.

[somethingclever]

To clarify - i installed a new blower motor (Mexico) but the one in the car was original and made in the USA. (of course)

I will keep the original and have it rebuilt at a local shop in the event the new one fails in the future.





Since the car is a driver and a first gen mustang, luckily there is no reason to re-invent the wheel when it comes to brakes, steering or suspension....just get out the checkbook.

With the goal of KISS - the car has manual steering and manual brakes. You can't put alot of rubber under these cars and it will be pretty light when finished so I am not expecting any regrets there but we shall see.


I purchased a rebuilt manual steering gear from a gentlemen named Chockostang over on the VMF forums. It looks and feels to be worth every penny. (I also replaced the bearings in the steering column tube which support the steering gear shaft.)

I purchased a stage 1 suspension kit from opentracker performance which includes a complete conversion to v8 style steering components as the 6cyl cars are different. I upgraded to a roller bearing steering arm and the kit comes with roller spring perches, "blueprinted/greasable" upper A-arms, street-valved bilstein dampers, GT spec coils, 4.5 mid-eye rear leafs, 1" front sway bar kit and a 1 piece export brace.

It also includes replacement strut rod bushings but I will likely come back and buy adjustable rods at minimum for alignment time.

I also purchased from them a template to do a "shelby drop" of the front A-arm.

I don't have alot of pics of the new parts....

[somethingclever]

At this point it was around June of 2020 and parts started to become pretty scarce/back-ordered.

As you can see this was just a partial shipment of goodies.

[somethingclever]

I also purchased a complete brake kit from opentracker.

I needed everything from v8 spindles on outward. (v8 steering links have larger ball-joint pins and probably larger wheels brgs too)

I decided to go with a kit from CSRP through opentracker.

This kit utilizes a new spindle casting designed to work with PBR style aluminum dual piston calipers.

It's a very complete kit and went together without issue. I think the front rotors are 11.7" IIRC. (well can't say 100% without issue...one of the spindles had a QC issue that was ultimately recitified with a replacement unit.)

They are a cast iron 1 piece vented deal for street cars.

I don't think CSRP offers a manual master cylinder for F/R discs as part of their "kits".

Since I planned for an 8.8 with rear discs, the owner of CSRP suggested an MC he had with a removable pressure residual valve for the rear brakes...so I went that route.

Another benefit of running manual brakes is it eliminates concern for clutch cable clearance since there is no booster to deal with.


Not many pics to share but I made a trip out to OH with a truckload full of new parts and in a half day we got everything installed.

[somethingclever]

With the front suspension completed I was supposed to tackle the rear axle myself...and I was dragging my feet.


A common 8.8 swap for 1st gen mustangs is to use an exploder rear end from 95-01. (I think)


Advantages with these units: typically 31 spline, close to the correct width, 3.55, 3.73, or 4.10's and track lok's are common, rear disc, relatively cheap ($400-$500 I was seeing already pulled).


The pinion is off-center by 2", which is the right amount to cut down the long side such that the WMS-WMS is really close to factory 7.5 or 8" rears that came on the car.


Basically you cut the long side down to match the same length as the short side and buy a new short side axle and then voila...you are golden.


In hindsight, that is definitely what I should have done. LOL


Alot of explorers have had rough and salty lives...I went another route which worked out but it was the hard way.


First I wanted higher gears for this fuel miser - 3.27 sounded good....wanted to start with a good working dropout with fairly low miles if possible.


I didn't feel the need for 31 spline and didn't want to buy gears if i didn't have to.


Bring in new edge 8.8's as a donor.



After some research I found that 2011+ Ford Ranger axles are 8.8, 28 spline, have the correct rotor hat hub, and the correct axle bearing ID/OD to be compatible in the new edge housing. This means I can use a stock mustang 8.8 rebuild kit for bearings/seals/etc.

These axles were close enough to being the correct length but require that both sides of the housing are sectioned/shortened accordingly.

Note that these Ranger axles do not have ABS exciter rings where-as the mustang axles do.

This is not a problem, however.

Lastly, Rock Auto supplied 2 new axles for under $200 shipped.

Purchase price of the complete rear was $300 from Carlisle.

For reference, one can buy a ready to bolt-in rear axle from online sources for about $2500. too rich for my blood...

[somethingclever]

some pictures....

Also turns out I bought a bit of a turd 8.8....there was a small chip in the ring gear and the bearings were garbage.....

So now I will plan for a full rebuild of brgs/seals/clutches..etc.

[somethingclever]

POR15'd

[Ares]

LOL, that itty bitty little chip. I've had half a tooth missing and never knew it. Bearings, ya they needed replaced.

[somethingclever]

LOL, that itty bitty little chip. I've had half a tooth missing and never knew it. Bearings, ya they needed replaced.


Ya the gears were a bummer....I didn't think about it but I suppose you are right and that mark is pretty superficial considering where it is on the tooth.

Too late now though...grabbed another set off ebay for $90.

So for the rear axle I am around $800...the only thing not being replaced is the housing itself...which was also chopped up obviously.

I think this is still quite a bit cheaper than buying an original 8", a rear disc kit, and complete rebuild with track-lok.

[Ares]

Oh I'm not against replacing something damaged. Plus I'd rather build a 8.8 vs a 8" for that car.

[somethingclever]

Now that the car was back to roller status and wetsanding/buffing was mostly complete on the body, it was sent out for a headliner to a local old-timer.

Sagging headliners are the worst so I was happy to pay a professional to do it.

Unfortunately I don't have any pics of just it, but it came out very nice...

Previously i showed a swatch of seat material to match wimbledon white, and I also planned to offset that white with 1965 Mustang "red".

The headliner is that red.

One thing I did not realize is that the headliner head and tail tuck into the F/R glass channel...so to replace a headliner in these cars is a big job as the glass also needs removed. It may be possible to do it without, but I didn't want to take a chance and the glass was out anyway. So after the headliner install, the F/R glass also went back in.

Then more body part wet sanding/buffing and fitting onto the car for permanent installation....

[2000GT]

That is looking really good John!

Keep the updates coming!

[Dan B.]

It's no ranger but looks pretty good.....:icon_mrgreen:

[somethingclever]

Couple more shine pictures from sanding/buffing.....


This car was in CA most of it's life, then NC, then PA....former owner was military....this sticker was on the windshield. Would have preferred to keep it on there but I forgot to let my friend know.


Also he tried to polish up the vent windows but the chrome was too pitted for me to stomach putting back on.....so new ones were ordered.

[somethingclever]

Since I am a wheel and tire snob I couldn't wait any longer to get the credit card out again....

Wheels and tires for these cars seem to be all over the map and the front fenders weren't on the car nor was the proper weight/ride height on it for me to get any real measurements from WMS to fender.

It seemed like the safest bet was 15x7 with 3.75" BS and a 215 tire would not rub the front...I forgot to mention the front and rear lips were rolled prior to primer/paint so I opted for some 225/60/15's on all four corners.


People put more rubber especially on the back but I wanted the ability to rotate the tires for this 8-10k miles/yr DD....and because I'm cheap.


Period correct is the idea....

[Ares]

Wow that is looking really good. Also you can't go wrong with that wheel choice for that generation :2thumbs:

[Dickbag 5.h0]

Awesome, it's coming together nicely! Great choice on the wheels, have them on my Nova....

[TooFast98Cobra]

Those rear fender lips are razor sharp. I cant tell you how many times I've sliced my hand washing the 65.

[somethingclever]

While the body was shaping up I was putting together a Christmas list of interior bits...

I purchased everything from CJ Pony Parts.

A note on that - they are good for in-stock parts....if something is back-ordered or there is an issue with a part...shop elsewhere. Getting someone on the phone is ridiculous.

I did get to speak with a pretty knowledgeable sales person who helped put together a complete interior package.

I will say where CJ seems to stand apart is the discounted packages they put together....and then they gave me a discount on top of that.

I wanted a stock appearing seat but with a little bolstering...opted for TMI Sport II seat covers and foam kit with the swatch matching wimbledon surrounded by 1965 mustang "red" in pony interior trim. These covers were custom and took 12 weeks to get with no returns!

I went back and forth on converting the car to Pony interior (never knew what that was until this project) as I do like it more than the std interior...however in the name of KISS I kept it stock type but plan for a few Pony Int. upgrades.

Alot of stuff was in stock thankfully at this time with the steering wheel and trim kit being on back-order for quite some time.

I could not find at the time a wood wheel specific for generator cars so I went with a matching white one....I may change that out in the future since I like wood trim on my 65 mustangs just the same as I like it on my 1990's Dodge Caravans'....LE trim of course.

I believe CJ Pony now offers a 64.5 specific hub to work with 64.5 specific (generator car specific) turn signal switch.


After the order a huge box showed up in OHIO with new parts....I used TMI products as much as possible to keep the "reds" all the same on the interior.

The biggest different in color ended up being the seat belts but I will have to live with it or try 1966 mustang "red" which is like a burgandy color and likely too dark. (TMI doesn't make belt webbing)

The TMI door panels matched basically perfect to the Ford Tooling Dash. (I forget who makes the dash pad)

New parts

[PaxtonShelby]

Great build John - you’re gonna love it! ��

[somethingclever]

Prior to the interior actually showing up the body continued to come together.....I made another trip out to OH early this spring to help run the wire harness and deliver more goodies....snapped this pic of the fenders sitting loosely on the car for photo op and motivation purposes...

His neighbor helped him hang the doors prior to my arrival....glad he did because the drivers side door body lines weren't quite acceptable considering how nice the car was otherwise turning out.

So he ended up reworking that door and then respraying it.

1 step forward...2 steps back.

[somethingclever]

I wasn't looking to reinvent the wheel for anything with this car....drivetrain included.

While the body was coming together I had started looking for an engine/trans....ideally a H/C/I 302/T5 dropout in good working order with decent miles.

My normal go-to online resources were coming up empty consistently and i don't have bookface.....almost seemed like SBF's are becoming "rare"?

[Dan B.]

...almost seemed like SBF's are becoming "rare"?

I'll 100% agree with that. When looking for another motor for Colt's truck I had all kinds of folks trying to sell junk for way too much money. It wasn't long ago (5-6yrs) when I paid $250 each for several running/complete HO motors. Now they are $1k and up with unknown history. A box of parts to make a stock HO are $500. I paid $1,500 for a 306 (Edelbrock Performer heads/intake, F cam, and a bunch of other goodies (24# inj, TF SN95 elbow, BBK TB, headers, Edelbrock FPR, etc, etc) but it's going to need new rings at some point.

[somethingclever]

I wasn't having much luck with a complete package but I did run across a brand new T5z that was in MD. Fortunately he was heading to Harrisburg for an autocross event (he builds and races miata's) so I met him there which saved me a little travel time and of course I stuck around for a bit to watch some runs before getting back on the turnpike.

Fortunately he not only had the trans but also a spare bellhousing and starter locating plate so I bought both of those.

At the time new T5z's were like $2300...not sure what they are now almost 1 yr later and lots of inflation.

I scored the bell, plate, and trans for $1400...seems like a good buy.

[PaxtonShelby]

Nice deal! Now...get that bell cleaned up and spray some clearcoat on everything to keep it shiny.

[somethingclever]

I'll 100% agree with that. When looking for another motor for Colt's truck I had all kinds of folks trying to sell junk for way too much money. It wasn't long ago (5-6yrs) when I paid $250 each for several running/complete HO motors. Now they are $1k and up with unknown history. A box of parts to make a stock HO are $500. I paid $1,500 for a 306 (Edelbrock Performer heads/intake, F cam, and a bunch of other goodies (24# inj, TF SN95 elbow, BBK TB, headers, Edelbrock FPR, etc, etc) but it's going to need new rings at some point.


I don't mind paying for it....the market is the market and I needed it. I was surprised at the lack of options anymore.


I didn't think I needed a completely new engine (well, didn't really want to pay for one either) and figured I could wade through a sea of HCI stock shortblock 302's for sale and select the perfect candidate.

It took me a bit to realize that the stock roller cam shortblocks I was seeking could very well be 35 yrs old now......and people don't seem to be playing with them as was the case 10 yrs ago before the Coyote came out.

But after a couple months of looking, I was pointed to one on FB Marketplace that should have been around the Columbus area. Was given the number and called the guy only to find out he was in New Hampshire?

It was a stock 90' vintage shortblock with E cam, AFR 165's, and an aftermarket port EFI intake...and the guy was willing to drive to Harrisburg (about 10hrs each way I think) to meet me....for the sum of $2600. Seemed like a fair deal for a running and ready to go engine. Was thinking all I needed to do swap intakes and install.

The intake that came on it was designed specifically for cobra kit cars to have EFI utlizing factory sensors, wiring harness, ECU and injectors and is under the name "Mass-Flo". The PO kept the harness and ECU but gave me the rest of the stuff with the engine...which I probably will not use in the future.

The engine was in his FF Cobra kit car and he said he removed it for a stroker 385 series BBF.


So sure enough about 1/2 mile from where I picked up the transmission a couple weeks prior, I picked up the longblock.

[2000GT]

Nice score! It bums me out that SBFs are becoming a relic of the past. You can't find cheap Ford V8s anymore like you can with the LS motors :furious:

[Martin0660]

Nice score! It bums me out that SBFs are becoming a relic of the past.

phtttttttt …. Welcome to my world. I’m driving to northern Michigan this weekend for parts.

[somethingclever]

phtttttttt …. Welcome to my world. I’m driving to northern Michigan this weekend for parts.


Hope you make it to Mackinac Island for the long weekend....

[somethingclever]

The interior was also sprayed wimbledon white with the same PPG products to make sure everything matched....and with a shipment of new parts it started coming together.

[somethingclever]

The interior went together pretty quick actually.....guess that is the benefit of installing all new parts and new hardware properly labeled in a bag where they are to be installed. (thank you AMK hardware)

The seat covers were the long-lead time item....once they came in I took the seats to a local interior shop to install the foam kit and new covers.....

Seat covers with wrinkles are as bad as sagging headliners...

[Martin0660]

Hope you make it to Mackinac Island for the long weekend....

nope, just out, inspect this deal, and back. If it pans out I’ll post details

[07v6vistablue]

Looks Great!

[somethingclever]

Interior kept coming along and then he re-focused back to the exterior....

And he added a man-pedal assembly that I purchased from MustangSteve - roller bearing converted and setup for his (Ford) clutch cable kit.

[PaxtonShelby]

Let me know how you like that roller bearing setup. Did you buy it complete or send your core to him or DIY?

[somethingclever]

Let me know how you like that roller bearing setup. Did you buy it complete or send your core to him or DIY?


I bought it complete from mustang Steve...pricey but simple to more or less just bolt it in.


Originally this car was going to be a paint job only deal for him but he was interested to do the interior as well...so I was trying to minimize his time for install and my time for sub-assembly work.


At the end of the day, this approach really added up. LOL

[somethingclever]

So in the last interior picture for those interested, the std vs pony interior packages offered by Ford have some interesting differences. I went with a mixture of both,

The glove box door in std interior is black with chrome trim but I like woodgrain on my 80's/90's caravan's and my classic cars...I have looked high and low and cannot find a wood grain sweep style instrument cluster (GT cars and 66 cars have 6 individual gauges unlike the 64.5-65 non GT cars which had the sweep cluster.) I have my old surround which I will use as a template and buy some woodgrain overlay material to practice on the old cluster and then install on the new one with a good template so both are matching. The pony glove box door also is thicker and uses a different latch mechanism. Knowing all that now, I would have bought a std black door and just done the wood overlay on that as well. Same effect and less cost.

The kick panel carpets are part of the pony interior package.

The seats covers i bought mimic the pony seat covers although they have extra bolstering with a stock look.

I didn't spring for the pony door panels which have molded in arm rests and a courtesy light. The courtesy light would have required wiring harnesses to be purchased and I think the door and window handles are also different as the panel itself is thicker. If my wife trips while she is getting into the car at night because there was no door courtesy light....well then that's her fault. I can't do everything.


Jumping ahead a bit but since I am talking about interior....here is a picture of the seats finished when I picked them up.

[somethingclever]

My next sub-assembly to tackle was the engine.

I wasn't planning to use the Mass-Flo EFI system but instead a carb...atleast initially.

This meant swapping to a Performer RPM intake for 120 yr old air/fuel delivery technology.

I pulled the EFI intake off and what I saw didn't give me a warm and fuzzy.....

The more I looked at the heads I thought I should atleast pull them and have cleaned/checked.

I really didn't want to put this engine in the car and then have to pull it again in 5k miles.

Pulled the heads and found some scoring in cyl #1.

Debated for a couple days if I really wanted to keep digging or just call it superficial marks and keep it simple and stop where I was.

Decided I have to know more....and glad I did.

Piston #1 pushed an oil ring and that is what caused the scoring.

[somethingclever]

The rest of the shortblock was in nice shape and was all original - std brgs and the pistons are the original forged TRW's.

The block was going to need to head to the machine shop and I didn't want to spend $750 on hardware to build a 306 when I can spend $1300 and get a 331.

So i ordered a complete Scat 331 kit for 28oz balance. This kit comes pre-machined, pre-balanced with matching damper and flexplate, king brgs, ICON pistons, and scat branded rods and crank. I ended up getting an alum mcleod flywheel for this fire-breather which was a great buy from a CJ Pony sale. (like 50% off or more)

I haven't rebuilt an engine in quite a while - have been restoring my house and buildings over the last 10 yrs...and this was my first SBF rebuild. Previously it's been FE's, BBF's, and 2.3T's.

That said, I should have done more homework on what I could actually use off this engine for a first gen mustang installation.

Since I didn't use the factory rotating assembly, the only thing I actually used from the engine I purchased was the cylinder heads and the block itself. DOH!

So much for saving money on a good used engine. :)

[86GT]

Thanks for posting all of these details on your build. I can only hope
to see this car out & about some day.

[TooFast98Cobra]

I have a nice small cap msd dizzy and a few other things on shelf. No charge just get this sbf shit outta here

[somethingclever]

I have a nice small cap msd dizzy and a few other things on shelf. No charge just get this sbf shit outta here


I can stop over thursday?

[PaxtonShelby]

Looking good John!! At this point, don’t even think about the money - just git-r-dun!! ��

[somethingclever]

Looking good John!! At this point, don’t even think about the money - just git-r-dun!! ��

pfft....I always think about the money.....it certainly isn't free! LOL


Honestly alot of people do build threads but don't talk about what it cost to get there....I am not going to be shy about it...maybe the info is helpful to someone.


Additionally I gave myself a budget to work within without doing the necessary homework for "today's" prices....blew that number out of the water!

[somethingclever]

I took the heads to SMO machine for cleaning and inspection.

The heads ended up having titanium retainers which had seen better days...the springs all checked out good, but one of the seats needed some rework. (can't remember if exh or int)

The seats on these little AFR 165's actually touch in the center of the chamber and SMO was hesitant to re-work it.

Ended up taking them to Evanuik Performance for round 2.

$1000 and 4 weeks later I picked the heads up with new valve job, retainers, decked and exh guides.

Considering a set of new "renegade" 165's is about $1700, the idea of purchasing a used engine in an effort to save money was again not helping my case. LOL


in the meantime my new rotating assembly showed up and I started putting that together.


I ended up ditching the F cam that was in it in favor for something a little milder for this eco-friendly decarbonization mustang for the sake of some MPG's. :)


I have always like the comp extreme energy grinds for OTS stuff....was debating between the XE262HR and XE270HR.


I ended up going with the 270HR and I may regret that from a MPG standpoint on a car that should see partial throttle and 2000rpm for 99% of the time.


That went in with some new FRPP hyd roller lifters for valve actuation.


The king bearings in my experience in with BBF's run pretty generous at the parting line as compared to 12 and 6...and these were no different.


Oil clearance was approx 1.8 thou at 12/6 and 2.8 at 9/3 on the mains....the rods were a touch tighter but similar difference between the 2 points.

[Dickbag 5.h0]

Really enjoying following this build. That's going to be a sharp machine when you're finished!

[somethingclever]

one thing i forgot to mention is that I was impressed at the quality control of the piston dia and the ring package supplied in the kit. The rings are nothings special total seals and the piston are forged ICON's.

All the rings came pre-gapped for a street application....i didn't even have to gap 1 of them. (but I checked them all)

Is this typical of today's stuff now?

Gapping rings is time consuming...was glad to not have to spend that time.

[Martin0660]

Rings depends on how you order them. Shelf nothing special are usually right enough. We order mine as file fit sets because I run wide gaps (like what feels like stupid wide). Even with a filing machine they take a while to set that’s for sure

[somethingclever]

Since this engine had a reverse rotation water pump, EFI timing cover....that wouldn't work for my std rotation water pump and mech fuel pump approach.

Fortunately my paint buddy had a spare cover in nice shape so i was able to re-purpose that with a new timing pointer. 2

The double hump oil pan wasn't going to work so that also meant new front sump pan, pickup, and std vol/pressure pump.

Now I also needed a new dipstick for the front cover.

Also needed a fuel pump eccentric to boot.

At the end of the day....literally the only thing I used from the (buy a good one and drop it in) engine I bought was the block (now refurbished) the heads (now refurbished), the pushrods and rockers.

Like all educations before...this one came at a cost. :)



My helper came out one day to help me set the heads on the block and run some head-bolts down like a bauss.

[somethingclever]

The plan again is KISS and period correct appearing....

65 Ferd v8's were commonly black engines with gold valve covers and air cleaners.

I didn't have the gold bits when I took this picture but here it is with some go-fast paint.

Since I switched from the pan rail mounted dipstick tube to a timing cover mounted tube, I had a hole in the block to fill. Back in the day I would have RTV'd this deal closed but now I have a tool or two....since I didn't catch this before the pan was installed, last thing I wanted to do was drill the hole to the proper size for a plug and introduce shavings into the pan. This may be well known to some, but I measured the hole and found that it was close enough for reasonable thread engagement of a 1/8" NPT plug. So all I had to do was run a 1/8" NPT tap down the hole and voila - a proper solution to a likely RTV oil leaker.


Also I broke out my digital scale to check the weight as it is in this picture.

carb pad to pan, water pump to crank flange




Any guesses?




Winner gets bragging rights.

[somethingclever]

Not sure why some of the pictures are sideways?

[Dan B.]

395#.

Sideways pic.....mine does that also. Drives me nuts.

[GOT SVT]

417 lbs

[Ares]

406lbs since it doesn't have a dizzy in it.

[PaxtonShelby]

394 pounds

[somethingclever]

You guys have me thinking I need to check the accuracy of my scale..........

I was pretty surprised by this number to be honest.

Then again it does have the following in aluminum:

intake
heads
waterpump
timing cover

But even with dizzy (which is alum bodied), carb, and accessories (only alt)....i would still expect it to be under 400lbs.

[Dan B.]

I went sub-400 knowing the carb wasn't on it. Fluids may make up some of the difference also.

I'd been reading about engine weight lately since I'm considering a 5.0 swap into our 1973 TR6. An aluminum headed 5.0 is actually a few pounds less than the stock iron straight 6.

[turbo83coupe]

Lack of carb, no fluids and aluminum heads are a big thing id think.

Awsome car!! Love this thread, carry on... Lol

[PaxtonShelby]

So what do I win?

[somethingclever]

So what do I win?


See post #103 - Bragging Rights of course :)




I made a trip to Columbus with the engine/trans/bell/rear axle (I skipped ahead with the pics earlier of the rear axle - it was actually the last thing to install in the car) and recovered seats in my gas guzzling Ford pickup....really thinking about a 6R80 swap if I can sell the rebuilt C6 I already had built for it.

[somethingclever]

While I was working on the engine, he finished the body.

I wanted a GT style look...he added the stripe on the body to mimic the original GT cars.

[somethingclever]

Actually when I went out with the drivetrain, he already had the back seat, seat belts, and rear package tray installed so I must have delivered those on a previous trip.

Since I plan to drive the car quite a bit and many times with kids - safety first.

We had planned all-along for 3 pt belts front and rear for this car.

Unfortunately the "1965 Red" seat belts from CJ don't match the TMI interior color - I will likely just live with it but you would think this has been figured out already.

The front seat belts mount on the B pillar - which really doesn't exist on a first Gen mustang - but instead at the top of the body where the door closes where the B pillar would be.

You can see the front belts in the top picture as well as the rears.

The rear belts are also custom install - he mounted the retractors in the trunk and ran the belts through the rear package tray. The plastic belt inserts and the speaker grill are the wrong shade of red so I will respray those to match the darker red of the package tray.

Form aside, they seem to function really well for the little kids to buckle themselves.

Will need to only use the narrow bottom booster seats in the back and I already told them - NO FOOD IN DAD's CAR! :biggrin:

[2000GT]

John, this is shaping up to be a REALLY nice car. I cannot wait to see the finished project!

[07v6vistablue]

Looks Beautiful!

[PaxtonShelby]

Looking amazing John!

[somethingclever]

Thanks for the compliments everyone.

Not shown but installed was also an MDF board behind the rear seat to help reduce interior noise, stick-on type sound deadening in roof/floors/firewall etc. Padding backed carpeting was used as well as the factory insulation for the firewall and under the rear seat.

The radio is a retro-sound unit with bluetooth and wireless antenna as you can see the original antenna hole was filled.

He picked the speakers as I am no audiophile - forget if they are kickers or something else...I am sure they they are good quality but I didn't care to have surround sound in this car so they were installed in the factory location - 1 in the front dash, and 1 in the back package tray- luxury!

In the name of sound deadening he also added the Pony interior kick panel carpets for the front which I had previously mentioned/shown. They also give the interior a much more finished look IMO.

[somethingclever]

Next up was filling the engine bay with the 331 and the trans tunnel with a new T5z.

He had a crossmember on the shelf for t5 conversions that I think he mistakenly bought before or came with a parts package or?....anyway we were able to use that for trans and I bought new replacement engine mounts from CJ Pony...I think they are Scott Drake versions. Anyway they are just a std rubber mount. I want to minimize the driveline vibrations in the car whilst I sip on my fancy coffee drinks or bourbon.

I probably would have went with an adjustable engine mount like Ron Morris which provides some flexibility up and down and fore/aft of the drivetrain.

I was concerned about 2 things with that though - header fitment, and those types of mounts only coming with Poly isolators instead of rubber. (don't want to spill that expensive bourbon on the way to work)

I will say the engine mounts worked but as delivered they would not - the rubber stand was too high for the through bolts to line up so we had to enlarge the slotted holes on the engine side mount.

The headers I selected are stainless JBA shorties which fortunately clear these mounts with no trimming required during a test fit.


A picture of move-in day below and a dusty engine bay from polishing compound.

[somethingclever]

Well Ron as you can see in the picture above I didn't find the time to "restore" the bellhousing finish like I had wanted - it just got a wipe-down and that was it.


I bought a new Ford pilot bearing, Ford clutch fork pivot, Ford clutch fork, FRPP throwout bearing, and clutch fork cover from LMR or American muscle..whoever had stuff in stock.

Clutch is an organic job...basically like a "king cobra clutch kit"....so should be good for about how much power it will make but still slip well with minimal pedal effort. (main principle I was looking for was low pedal effort)

The factory repop engine mounts place the T5 trans shifter NEARLY perfect in the original automatic shifter hole. I retained the NOS shifter base which will be used with a Hurst stick. I like a Tri-ax or pro 5.0 in T5's but their larger base would have mean more trimming of the shifter hole opening and the stock job will have less NVH than the aftermarket piece so stock it is. i ended up trimming about 1/4" on the front of the shifter hole opening so the trans could be installed at the right height with a replacement rubber trans mount.

Those Ron Morris adjustable engine mounts would have saved a little time here but again...was concerned about the headers clearing those larger mounts.


With the 'heavy lifting' of this project basically completed, it was time to turn the car back over to me to finish it up.


My buddy was itching to start on his own car next in the lineup (can you believe his nerve..lol) which is a 65 galaxie z code manual trans fastback. He loves no-option full size Fords...he's weird like that. :yes:



With the trans in the car he bolted the front seats in and gave it a quick wipe down....he also got the 8.8 finished up and bolted in well enough for transport.



A few pictures of the car he sent me before I picked it up:

[07v6vistablue]

Looks great!

[somethingclever]

So this is pretty much up to date at this point.

Car still needs about 100 hrs of finishing touches I would expect:

1.) wring out all wiring
2.) cooling system
3.) rebuild rear axle
4.) Driveshaft
5.) Exhaust
6.) Finish fuel System
7.) Rear brake lines
8.) Bleed Brakes
9.) Misc Interior Details
10.) Figure out pulley situation/Alt brackets
11.) Whatever else I am forgetting


To get to this point, starting with a very clean California car....he logged approx 500hrs of labor on a nut and bolt restoration.

Paint materials and consumables alone were $2k for middle of the road PPG products....

Engine ended up about $7k

Trans/clutch..etc about $2k

Steering/Susp/Brakes $3.5k

Interior/Misc $3k

Wheels/Tires $1k

rear axle $1k

Misc exterior/fuel/hardware $3k

Exhaust $1k

Cooling/driveshaft $1k


That totals about $25k in parts not including car purchase or any labor. If I would have planned better I may not have gone down this path but instead bought a finished one for $25k.


Granted a professional shop probably would have saved some hours as compared to my buddy, but even if they did the job in 400 hrs @ 75?/hr that's another $30k in labor making this a $55k coupe. Yikes!

Luckily I paid friend rates which was super cheap by comparison.


Anyway got the car home and in the garage while it waits it's turn as I finish up a few other automotive projects ahead of it.


If it's ready for a road test by spring of 2022 I will be happy.

[2000GT]

It did turn out really nice though! Plus having the satisfaction of you putting a lot of the work into it makes it all the better! It looks great!

[Fast Gypsy]

Every project that I own, cost more and took more time than I wanted. Your happy with the result and that's what counts. Great looking car!

[Terminated]

I feel like the route USUALLY ends up being better to buy one already done, but the fun is seeing it all come together! Great job the car looks awesome.

[somethingclever]

It did turn out really nice though! Plus having the satisfaction of you putting a lot of the work into it makes it all the better! It looks great!

Thanks Shawn - can't wait to hear it start for the first time....


Every project that I own, cost more and took more time than I wanted. Your happy with the result and that's what counts. Great looking car!


I feel like the route USUALLY ends up being better to buy one already done, but the fun is seeing it all come together! Great job the car looks awesome.


Thanks guys - I am used to it at this point....just wanted to provide a little book-keeping details for anyone else considering a restoration. Have read lots of build threads over the years with little info about what it cost to get there....

Looking forward to spring time to get some shake-down miles on it.

Also going to add 2 more items to my to-do list:

1.) Rear backup lights
2.) Third brake light



I ended up picking up a couple other cars this summer which are getting put in front of this 64.5.


I did a light restoration on a 65 Mustang that needed a little love......original PNW car nearly rust free as well.

[somethingclever]

I ended up selling the 65 here recently.



Also picked up a 69 coupe - going to do a light cosmetic and mechanical restoration on it here this fall.

This is a pretty entertaining car....302 4spd toploader.

It has a comp thumper cam and bolt-ons...probably an honest 250hp but sounds like nascar.....