Question on 94-95 Mods

[dads95gt]

My son Steve-O is up at Wyotech taking the Chassis Fab & Hi Performance Engine elective. He would like to do a H-C-I swap such as Trick Flow or similar on the 95GT. After all I have read in MM&FF or 5.0 Mustang about the computer issues on the 94-95's I am not convinced. What issues will we have if I agree to do this? What else is necessary besides the H-C-I package? The GT currently has a CAI, BBK H pipe w/cats and Flowmaster American Thunder cat back. Steve has run a 14.07 with drag radials(stock gears). Any input would be appreciated.

[Killercanary]

I'm running out the door now but I'll type a book for you later LOL! It is true that the 94-95 EEC is a little finicky, but its nothing to shy away from. I'll be home after 5pm and will tell you more then.

[yeahloh95]

do it:thmbsup: just get a cam with a 114 centerline and you should be ok then plan on a tune to dial it in :goodidea:

[Killercanary]

My son Steve-O is up at Wyotech taking the Chassis Fab & Hi Performance Engine elective. He would like to do a H-C-I swap such as Trick Flow or similar on the 95GT. After all I have read in MM&FF or 5.0 Mustang about the computer issues on the 94-95's I am not convinced. What issues will we have if I agree to do this? What else is necessary besides the H-C-I package? The GT currently has a CAI, BBK H pipe w/cats and Flowmaster American Thunder cat back. Steve has run a 14.07 with drag radials(stock gears). Any input would be appreciated.


The most common issue that comes from a buildup such as this is that the EEC doesn't like a cam swap. The 94-95 EEC differed from the fox body's A9L in that it is a load based setup. The A9L was more of an RPM based one. The 94-95 EEC uses mostly the mass air voltage signal (an a few other things like TPS, vehicle speed sensor, etc) to determine how much load the car is seeing. Think of load as the amount of starin the engine is seeing. Example- driving on a flat road at a steady speed have very little load compared to driving up a mountain. The engine has to work harder to accelerate and even maintain speed. During the steady cruise on a flat road the EEC will see that the throttle is barely open (TPS voltage will be low), there isn't a lot of air flow coming in through the MAF as shown by the voltage, and the vehicle speed is constant. The EEC will then use the lower values of load in the spark and fuel tables to determine how much of each it needs. Now when climbing a steep hill the throttle may be wide open, but the EEC will see that the air coming into the engine isn't increasing as fast as it should if it had no load, it will also see that the vehicle speed isn't increasing very fast given a wide open throttle. This is HIGH load. The computer will takes the readings from these sensors and determine how much load this is and then look at that cell in its fuel and spark tables to determine how much of each it should use.

Now that you have an understanding of this, let me explain why these EEC's are touchy. There are two things here to concider. First is that when you do a HCI setup you will also be changing injectors. The way that this is usually done is by buying a "calibrated" MAF. All a calibrated mass air sensor is one that alters the voltage from what the stock sensor would send for the same airflow. It does this to "trick" the EEC into thinking that less air is entering the egine than there really is. The EEC then shortens up the pulsewidth (or time that the injector is open) so that less fuel is delivered. Since you will be running larger than stock injectors at this point, they will still flow more fuel than the stockers did. Its all a balancing act in terms of getting this right, but IMO Professional Mass Air systems have the best track record. C&L does this by using sampling tubes that either speed up or slow the amount of air that passes over the MAF wires. I do NOT like this method as there are a number of other things that can effect this like MAF clocking, bends in the tubing before the MAF can lead to high and low velocity areas inside of the MAF, etc. Anyway... The reason this can have a negative effect on the 94-95's is because the EEC is using that voltage to determine load, if you trick it and send a different voltage to shorten the pulse width, you also decrease the load that the EEC thinks its actually seeing. Now don't worry too much about this as there are thousands of guys running like this (I am) without troubles. You would think that the larger injector you have the more problems you would see with this, but lots of guys are running 42's without a problem.

The second problem is with the cam. There is a LOT of speculation on this. Most will tell you to stick with a cam that has an LSA at or higher than stock, but I don't like this way of thinking. These types of cams are good for power adders, but they are not the best at producing NA horsepower. I run a 110* LSA in my car. It gave me fits when I first installed it. Typically the car will develop the "surge and die syndrome" where it hunts for an idle and eventually stalls because it can't find one. The more overlap you have the worse the problem seems to be. This may be due to decreased vacuum, reverb (exhaust gases backing up into the intake at low RPM), etc. The way i fixed mine was to bump the idle speed to 850-900rpms and cut some puslewidth back at idle. My method of thinking is this, don't sell your combo short by picking a "safe" cam. Make up you mind to get the cam that will make the most power for the given combo and just plan on needing to tune around it.

For tuning options you can get a custom burnt chip, or get soemthing like a PMS, twEECer, EEC Tuner, etc and tune it yourself. You will find that a lot of 94-95 owners choose this route because a lot of tuners are not familiar with the 94-95 EEC's. What ever you do, do not get talked into getting the PIH that alows you to convert to a A9L. The A9l was good in its day, but its slower and not as sofisticated as the 94-95's EEC. Plus, the PIH will run you at least $600 and in the end all you'll have is a stock A9L in your car.

[Killercanary]

As for what else is necessary with a HCI... here's some of what you'll need or should change.

-roller rockers
-timing chain
-fuel pump
-MAF
-injectors
-possibly a fuel pressure regulator
-some sort of tuning devise
-head gaskets
-intake gasket
-timing cover gasket
-thermostat and gasket
-headers and gaskets (I'd also do locking header bolts)
-head bolts or studs
-new rear gear ratio to match the combo

As for which HCI combo is right for you, it will all depend on how much power you want, how the car is driven (daily or weekend street/strip terror), what RPM range you want and how high you want to shift it, will this be going on the stock bottom end, etc.

I REALLY like AFR165's for stock short block applications. they work great out of the box, they provide great flow AND velocity which is great in a street car, and they allow for some decent cam choices without too much piston to valve clearance issues.

[yeahloh95]

yeah what he said :goodidea:

[dads95gt]

Thanks for all the info. I was thinking of a kit like the Trick Flow Street Heat. From what I have seen or read Holley, Edelbrock and Ford all have kits also. The Trick Flow seems to be the most complete though. They are all about the same price. It seems that in addition to the kit I would need lifters, MAF, injectors, fuel pump, headers and a tuner at a minimum. I don't know enough to mix and match components. A kit seems the safest way to go unless we start out with heads and slowly build it up. Something to think about. Thanks:thmbsup:

[Steve-0]

Ok so I took a look at the kit and the things from your list that it doesnt come with are as follows: Fuel pump, MAF, injectors,fuel pressure regulator(maybe), tuning device of some sort,t-stat and gasket,headers, and maybe gears. What do you recommend as far as fuel pump and injectors go? Also what about a bigger tb? My dad, if he goes for it, is leaning towards the trick flow street engine package. Comes with most of the things needed and is relatively cheap. Thanks for all the help so far.:thmbsup:

Also, you got a link to a MAF that I can look at that would work?

[cam303]

Pure stock has a harness and a computer that he got for the 94 he used to have to convert a 94-95 to an a9l computer. If you are interested in it I am sure he would be willing to sell it. I think it was made by pro-m.

[Killercanary]

Ok so I took a look at the kit and the things from your list that it doesnt come with are as follows: Fuel pump, MAF, injectors,fuel pressure regulator(maybe), tuning device of some sort,t-stat and gasket,headers, and maybe gears. What do you recommend as far as fuel pump and injectors go? Also what about a bigger tb? My dad, if he goes for it, is leaning towards the trick flow street engine package. Comes with most of the things needed and is relatively cheap. Thanks for all the help so far.:thmbsup:

Also, you got a link to a MAF that I can look at that would work?


Fuel pump- I'd get a Walbro GSS340 high volume 255lph. Its a little over kill for a basic HCI package, but it'll allow you to grow. For injectors, 24's are perfect for the typical 302 with a simple HCI setup, but they will not allow you to grow. I run 24's because when I built my old combo I never thought I'd do any more with the car. Now that I'm going to be running a stroker I will be coming up short on the injectors. The one benefit of running 24's is that you run that at a high fuel pressure than the 30's, which promotes greater fuel atomization and usually that means power. Honestly, I haven't seen much of a difference in power from combos with 24's versus 30's.

Throttle body- Get which ever size matches the intake he chooses. I chose a 65mm FMS throttle body because it was fine size wise for my combo and it is the best quality TB you can buy. It also comes with new sensors.

Dollar for dollar the TF kit is very hard to beat. Just make absolutely sure you know how to setup the valvetrain geometry correctly or you WILL have valve guide wear issues with TF heads.

Here is the MAF I'd run: The 80mm unit.
http://www.massairsystems.com/

Cam303 is refering to the PIH I mentioned above.

[Steve-0]

Ok, well we decided what we are going to do with the car. My dad ordered headers already and is only waiting to decide what cam to go with. We arent sure what to pick, as we are afraid of clearance issues with the pistons. So far we are going with a trick flow street heat intake, Im going to port the heads in school as much as I can. I will be flow benching them before and after. There are way too many cams out for us to make a decision on, so what are everyones recommendations? And do you think 24lb injectors would be enough? And you think we need a pump too? And I think a 80mm MAF might be a little bit big for this combo as well, but thats just a guess. Thanks for any help you can give me.:highfive:

[RUSH2112]

Ok, well we decided what we are going to do with the car. My dad ordered headers already and is only waiting to decide what cam to go with. We arent sure what to pick, as we are afraid of clearance issues with the pistons. So far we are going with a trick flow street heat intake, Im going to port the heads in school as much as I can. I will be flow benching them before and after. There are way too many cams out for us to make a decision on, so what are everyones recommendations? And do you think 24lb injectors would be enough? And you think we need a pump too? And I think a 80mm MAF might be a little bit big for this combo as well, but thats just a guess. Thanks for any help you can give me.:highfive:

I am going through the same choices right now. There are alot of good people on here with excellent knowledge and first hand experience with many different specific parts and general applications. I don't have much advice and cannot speak from experience but for what it's worth, this is what I have heard several dozen times:

1) Choose your cam wisely. There are hundereds of them out there and picking the right cam is important. Depending on what you want to do with your car, a custom cam (while a little more expensive) might be an option over to the 'off-the-shelf' brands.

2) 24# injectors will be more than adequate for your setup. Unless you intend on cramming more air into the engine (turbo, supercharger), then they'll be just fine.

3) As far as the fuel pump, I would go as big as possible. When my stock pump kicked the bucket a few months ago, I opted for a 255lph BBK (Walbro) pump. It is definitely too much for my current measly setup, but allows for room of growth for bigger and better things. For the price difference of a 190 or 255 fuel pump, go with the 255lph.

I hope this helps and is accurate (i've been known to talk complete ignorance when it comes to cars, but I am learning and try to listen well ):rofl:

Finally, most importantly, take your time and plan out a budget with a top spending $$ amount. If you have a limitless $$$ amount, then you'll never get done with the project. Good luck and hope everything turns out well.

[Stangman701]

Ok, well we decided what we are going to do with the car. My dad ordered headers already and is only waiting to decide what cam to go with. We arent sure what to pick, as we are afraid of clearance issues with the pistons. So far we are going with a trick flow street heat intake, Im going to port the heads in school as much as I can. I will be flow benching them before and after. There are way too many cams out for us to make a decision on, so what are everyones recommendations? And do you think 24lb injectors would be enough? And you think we need a pump too? And I think a 80mm MAF might be a little bit big for this combo as well, but thats just a guess. Thanks for any help you can give me.:highfive:

I got a set of stock heads you guys can have if you want to practice the porting a little first :awsome:

[Steve-0]

I am going through the same choices right now. There are alot of good people on here with excellent knowledge and first hand experience with many different specific parts and general applications. I don't have much advice and cannot speak from experience but for what it's worth, this is what I have heard several dozen times:

1) Choose your cam wisely. There are hundereds of them out there and picking the right cam is important. Depending on what you want to do with your car, a custom cam (while a little more expensive) might be an option over to the 'off-the-shelf' brands.

2) 24# injectors will be more than adequate for your setup. Unless you intend on cramming more air into the engine (turbo, supercharger), then they'll be just fine.

3) As far as the fuel pump, I would go as big as possible. When my stock pump kicked the bucket a few months ago, I opted for a 255lph BBK (Walbro) pump. It is definitely too much for my current measly setup, but allows for room of growth for bigger and better things. For the price difference of a 190 or 255 fuel pump, go with the 255lph.

I hope this helps and is accurate (i've been known to talk complete ignorance when it comes to cars, but I am learning and try to listen well ):rofl:

Finally, most importantly, take your time and plan out a budget with a top spending $$ amount. If you have a limitless $$$ amount, then you'll never get done with the project. Good luck and hope everything turns out well.
Hey thanks for information, the more opinions we can get the better.


I got a set of stock heads you guys can have if you want to practice the porting a little first :awsome:

I could probably take em, but I should be alright. Im probably gonna end up port matching them, smoothing out all the burrs it has, then maybe do a 3 or 5 angle valve job on the valves. Also probably going to replace the stock springs out for some stiffer ones. The port work should get the heads close to some of the lesser aluminum ones flow wise. Weight is a whole other story, but youll have that. In the end I should be able to shave a few pounds off each head, but thats about it. Guess the flow bench and dyno will be the judge in the end.:pepper:

[Killercanary]

Ok, well we decided what we are going to do with the car. My dad ordered headers already and is only waiting to decide what cam to go with. We arent sure what to pick, as we are afraid of clearance issues with the pistons. So far we are going with a trick flow street heat intake, Im going to port the heads in school as much as I can. I will be flow benching them before and after. There are way too many cams out for us to make a decision on, so what are everyones recommendations? And do you think 24lb injectors would be enough? And you think we need a pump too? And I think a 80mm MAF might be a little bit big for this combo as well, but thats just a guess. Thanks for any help you can give me.:highfive:


Honestly, if you are going to use the stock heads (even ported) I'd leave the cam alone. The 94-95's can be a bit temperamental with cam swaps and I really don't see the possibility of loss of drive-ability being made up for by any sizable amount of HP. I could be wrong, but I wouldn't waste my time and/or money on a cam swap with stock heads, ESPECIALLY if you don't want to budget in some sort of tuning devise for the EEC.

I also wouldn't waste time or money on porting the stock heads, but that's your call. If you are set on doing your own check out this link as it could be VERY useful to you:
http://www.cmc.net/~xero/Mousesporting.html

Most of us have thought about this when we had stock stuff on our cars, but in the end the pay-off just doesn't seem worth the time, trouble, and money (head gaskets and bolts) IMO. I also do not like the trick flow street heat intakes. They just don't seem to put up the numbers that others do. For a stock headed car my pick is always the edelbrock performer intake. It will also allow you to grow a little as you can always swap on a RPM I or typhoon upper onto it later which has shorter runners which help promote higher RPM breathing. Its an old design, but it still is one of the best in its class.

24lb injectors will be good for your planned combo, but you could probably get away with the stockers since I doubt you'll make more than 240-250rwhp MAX. As for the MAF, its one item I feel you can never go too big on. It can act as a restriction down the road if and when you step up the combo to better parts. Our stock MAF are larger than the fox body's inside diameter, so they flow a bit more. As for the fuel pump, that's a hard one to answer. You may get away with the stocker, (they flow a little more than the older fox's) but for the price you may as well upgrade the 10+yr old stocker.

I hope that helps.

[yeahloh95]

i agree the most power is to be had with an intake and throttle body along with headers. i liked my car with cobra intake and stock long block ,it ran really well "around 14.1 in the 1/4" with no drivablity problems.

[Steve-0]

i agree the most power is to be had with an intake and throttle body along with headers. i liked my car with cobra intake and stock long block ,it ran really well "around 14.1 in the 1/4" with no drivablity problems.

The car already runs faster than that with intake and exhaust.... so I dunno whats going on. Guess it will be my dads final decision based on all of this what we are going to do.

[Killercanary]

Your dad's car with stock untouched heads, an edelbrock intake, a homemade CAI, ASP aluminum underdrive pulleys, 3.73/4.10 gears, sticky tires, and full exhaust should be EASILY capable of sub 13.5's at over 101mph with a good driver. I went 13.83 at 98.55mph with the above mods in my then nealry 3800lb 'vert. I've seen two guys run in the 12's with very similar setups in 94-95 GTS coupes but they drove them like they stole them and had drag suspension and slicks.

[Stangman701]

The car already runs faster than that with intake and exhaust.... so I dunno whats going on. Guess it will be my dads final decision based on all of this what we are going to do.

C'mon Steve, talk him into getting some better heads :thmbsup: . AFR 185's, new pistons and a big ole cam. Give that bad boy some lope :3gears:

[Killercanary]

I like Ray's idea even better!!!

[yeahloh95]

me too x2:pepper:

[Steve-0]

C'mon Steve, talk him into getting some better heads :thmbsup: . AFR 185's, new pistons and a big ole cam. Give that bad boy some lope :3gears:

Im pretty sure he doesnt want to spend that kind of money at the moment, and that is why we didnt go with the h/c/i package itself. I wish I could, but oh well. Its his decision and money in the end, Im just the installer. We have pulleys that need put on it as well already, and the headers came today, so thats something I guess. Its definately getting the heads ported by me though, as I have the skill/tools to do it properly. I will have flow numbers of before and after, along with pictures of what I do to them, and how I do it. Its just the freakin cam we can't decide on. If it comes down to it, we could always go with a very well known cam from ford, just to make that extra little bit of power.And be in the solid low 13s next year at least!:yes: :rolleyes:

[Steve-0]

I should have some pictures up of the progress so far when I get home from school tonight. The cam should be able to go in tomorrow, and Ill be starting on the heads today I beleive. Ive got lots of pics so be warned.:awsome:

[Killercanary]

Cool, I can't wait to see them!

[yeahloh95]

yeah me too, i am looking forward to how much better the car runs with the new mods.

[Steve-0]

Ok heres some pics as I said there would be....
Dynod:rolleyes:
http://www.steelcitystangs.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=561&stc=1&d=1165551607
Just starting to take it apart:
http://www.steelcitystangs.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=562&stc=1&d=1165551831
Upper off:
http://www.steelcitystangs.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=563&stc=1&d=1165551831
Injectors/fuel rails off.
http://www.steelcitystangs.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=564&stc=1&d=1165551831
Lower off/Alt off
http://www.steelcitystangs.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=565&stc=1&d=1165551831
Close up of lower off
http://www.steelcitystangs.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=566&stc=1&d=1165551831
A large amount of stuff in the trunk...
http://www.steelcitystangs.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=567&stc=1&d=1165551831

EDIT: dont mind the car being dirty, it rained on my way to school when I drove it there last week. Rt 22's construction makes it a mess out there.

[Steve-0]

More.

All self explanitory.:awsome: Thats all I have for now, more to come as the progress moves along. The cam is out, new one should go in friday at some point, and I will be starting the heads too. Good times.

[Stangman701]

Nice leopard print rag :pinkthumb: . What cam did you guys go with?

[Steve-0]

Nice leopard print rag :pinkthumb: . What cam did you guys go with?

Hey thanks, Im thinking about getting some stuff painted to match!:twothumbsup:

Anyway, yea we went with teh comp cams extreme energy XE270HR-14. If you want the numbers for it, Ill let you know later.


More pics to come when I get home from dinner....

[Stangman701]

Hey thanks, Im thinking about getting some stuff painted to match!:twothumbsup:

Anyway, yea we went with teh comp cams extreme energy XE270HR-14. If you want the numbers for it, Ill let you know later.


More pics to come when I get home from dinner....

Nice man :awsome: . That should be pretty similar to the one in my car(XE274). We need some audio once you get it all put back together :jump:

[Steve-0]

Nice man :awsome: . That should be pretty similar to the one in my car(XE274). We need some audio once you get it all put back together :jump:

There will be a vid when its done.:yes:

More pics....
Heads and valvetrain is all apart, inspected and cleaned. Valves look pretty good cleaned up. I used a media blasting booth to do all of this, just taped off some key areas and it came out pretty good. Porting will start monday, and if I can get one of my friends to do it, the cam should go in as well. Thanks for looking. Ill have more pics come monday evening.:D

[Steve-0]

Nobody cares?:o oh well.


My dad is looking at the Tweecer for tuning this, anyone have any experience with it? It looks to be pretty nice, and a decent deal at that.

[Killercanary]

Looking good. I don't know the specs on that cam, so I can't comment on it.

If your dad is getting a twEECer, make sure he gets the RT version and have him ask Santa for a wideband for Christmas, with these two he will be able to tune the heck out of it. I suggest that join the tweecer users group on yahoo and join stangnet.com as there is a nice tuning forum in the 94-95 specific section. There is a lot of information there and other users that will make the learning curve much easier for you and your dad. I run the eectuner on my car, its like the grandfather of the tweecer.

[yeahloh95]

can you mill the heads too? that would help some :pepper:

[Steve-0]

Looking good. I don't know the specs on that cam, so I can't comment on it.

If your dad is getting a twEECer, make sure he gets the RT version and have him ask Santa for a wideband for Christmas, with these two he will be able to tune the heck out of it. I suggest that join the tweecer users group on yahoo and join stangnet.com as there is a nice tuning forum in the 94-95 specific section. There is a lot of information there and other users that will make the learning curve much easier for you and your dad. I run the eectuner on my car, its like the grandfather of the tweecer.

Thanks for the sites, Ill look at them later.
Specs on cam:
Intake Duration at 050 inch Lift: 218
Exhaust Duration at 050 inch Lift: 224
Intake Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.512 in.
Exhaust Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.512 in.
Lobe Separation (degrees): 114


can you mill the heads too? that would help some :pepper:

Unfortunately not, we arent allowed to mill any heads in class.:rolleyes:

[Steve-0]

New day, new pics.... started porting the heads, on the exhaust side at least. Flow benched them first on the flow bench. Numbers stock are pretty craptastic as expected, flow drops off at around .500" lift on both intake and exhaust sides. Lets hope that changes for the sake of the cam having .512" lift on both sides.
Flow numbers
EXHAUST
Lift @ .300"= 114.70 CFM
Lift @ .400"= 119.48 CFM
Lift @ .500"= 121.10 CFM

INTAKE
Lift @ .200"= 121.07 CFM
Lift @ .300"= 152.93 CFM
Lift @ .400"= 151.29 CFM
and was about the same at .500"

Oh and the new cam is in, but I didnt get any pics of it. I need to degree it tomorrow and set the timing after I put the new chain on. Ill get pics of that all then.
Oh and sorry about the glare in the one pic, I need to learn to take better pictures.:o

[gmkillr]

Lookin good man!
Where did you get the heads flowed at?
What else do you guys have planed for the car?

:thmbsup:

[Viper_ed]

Where did you get the heads flowed at?
I'd guess he did it at school. Would be suprised if Wyotech didn't have the flow bench there.

[Killercanary]

Steve-O: here's a GREAT site for tips on getting the most out of the stock E7TE heads.


http://www.cmc.net/~xero/Mousesporting.html

[87notch]

Looks good man:awsome:

[Steve-0]

Lookin good man!
Where did you get the heads flowed at?
What else do you guys have planed for the car?

:thmbsup:
Thanks! Flowed them myself at school. Big stuff: ported stock heads, T/F upper and lower, Comp cams XE270HR-14 cam, double roller chain, pulleys, headers, 24lb/hr injectors/ 70mm prof. products TB, and other misc stuff that I have forgot.


I'd guess he did it at school. Would be suprised if Wyotech didn't have the flow bench there.
Yep!

Steve-O: here's a GREAT site for tips on getting the most out of the stock E7TE heads.


http://www.cmc.net/~xero/Mousesporting.html
Thanks for the site! I started doing alot of that already, but from what this guy has said, and his pictures, Ill be taking the exhaust ports out a bit more than they already are. And those are some good ideas for the intake side.

Looks good man:awsome:
Thanks! Its been alot of work so far, but I think it will be worth it in the end. It has to be out of the shop by wednesday the 20th, so it should be interesting to see if I can get it all done by then.

New pics.
Still rockin the leapord print rags because Im a bad ass. Cam is in, new timing chain is in, degreed the cam, everything is within specs. So far so good. Thanks for looking.:)

[Sonic03snake]

Lookin good Steve!!!:goodidea:

[Steve-0]

Lookin good Steve!!!:goodidea:

Thanks!

New pics/ updates this evening or tomorrow! Its getting there!:jump:

[Steve-0]

Thanks!

New pics/ updates this evening or tomorrow! Its getting there!:jump:

Ha, I quoted myself. Wierd.

Anyway, new pics. Heads are ported/reflowed. Got about a 10% increase in flow numbers all around. For the intake side, I end up leaving the bottom almost untouched to help prevent fuel puddling, but the sides and top are done pretty well. I dont have the numbers with me but they are alright. The heads are assembled, then put on and torqued. Timing chain cover was put on, along with the water pump, also installed the dampner, marked 0 degrees while it was off with white paint for reference as well. Now for the pics!

Edit: man there are alot of pics in this thread! Sorry if anyone has 56k! DUW for the thread maybe?

[Steve-0]

Should be all together tomorrow, and maybe even start it up at the end of the day. Tweecer should be waiting for me when I get home and then I can tune it a bit at school on Tuesday. Lets all cross our fingers!:bouncy:

[Killercanary]

My fingers are crossed for you! :)

[gmkillr]

Post up the new flow #'s when you get them.
Your doin a great job, I cant wait to see how everything turns out!!:laughing1:

[Steve-0]

Ok its back together and back to my house after a crazy week. It runs, but makes some noise that I cant figure out. Ive got a video of it that I will post, I just need to upload it somewhere. For now however here is a pic of it all done:

EDIT: Heres the video link, listen to the knocking sound, it doesnt start until I get out of the car.... Anyone know what that is?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-341861617550818106&hl=en

[Stangman701]

Well at least it looks good. Doesn't sound all that good though. Did you use the stock rockers or did you switch to roller rockers? Either way I blame it on the leopard print rags :sticktonge:

[Steve-0]

Well at least it looks good. Doesn't sound all that good though. Did you use the stock rockers or did you switch to roller rockers? Either way I blame it on the leopard print rags :sticktonge:

Stock rockers. Oh and there is an exhaust leak too. That would be why its loud. And it has no tune at all, I need to get on that.:o

[Viper_ed]

Sounds like either a Lifter that isn't pumped up or a loose rocker. Kind of hard to tell though.

How long have you run it since putting it back together? If it were a lifter, it may take up to 30 seconds to quiet down and you may even have to rev it slightly.

What rockers did you use, the stock ones? I know that I had a stock lifter come loose once, ever since then I have always just used the hillybilly torquer method when bolting the stock rockers down and ignored the recomended tq rating of like 12#.

One other thing it could be a piston to valve issue. Judging by how high the idle was, the cam may not be degreed right.

:twocents:

[Stangman701]

With enough lift the stock rockers might hit the oil baffle on the stock valve covers. Just throwing ideas out there. I'm not sure if that's possible, but I know there are clearance issues there with roller rockers.

[Steve-0]

Yea, it kinda sounds like it might be a rocker hitting the valve covers. The cam is degreed correctly, so thats not it. Lifters Were good when I put them in...its been driven about 2 miles, never revved it over like 2k-2.3krpm that I know of. We did however torque the rockers down to factory spec, and it didnt seem like enough, something retarded like 18 ft lbs. Guess the valve covers will be coming off, and I kind of expected it. Thanks for the help so far.

[Steve-0]

Ha, if I have some time tomorrow, I'm gonna try and start taking stuff apart again. Working on the car on christmas eve FTW. Oh well, its a good thing I enjoy working on cars.:laughing:

[Steve-0]

OH GOD! Found the problem! Pics in a second! Need to resize!:censored:

[Steve-0]

Ok had a big thing written out but firefox crashed so here are the pics. Looks like the rod bent and proceeded to go through the rocker. ANy reason in particular this would happen?

[Viper_ed]

I would guess too long of a pushrod. Did you just reuse the stock ones with the bigger cam? My guess is you gonna fail your valvetrain set-up class. :biglaugh:

[Rio94gt]

That sucks.

[Sonic03snake]

Im by no means an expert when it comes to the pedistal rocker stuff but Im guessing you needed to shim the rockers with the new cam.:dunno: Where is Paul when you need him? LOL.

[Viper_ed]

I have a brand new Crane Cam stud mout conversion for the stock heads if you're interested.

[5k#Eaton]

well thats ugly

[gmkillr]

Are those stock puchrods?
I believe your suppose to run hardened pushrods when you run aftermarket cams. They are probbly also the wrong length if they are stock. Your going to have to measure & see what length your going to need. You will need an adjustable pushrod to check for the correct length. Im sure someone w/ alot more knowledge will chime in. Good luck!

[87notch]

That sucks dude.

[gmkillr]

Check this out.

http://www.camshaftinnovations.com/FTT_PushrodLength.htm

[Stangman701]

Looks like it's time for some new pushrods and some roller rockers. At least it wasn't anything too serious though and you don't have to tear the whole engine apart again.

[Steve-0]

Small update, took the rest of the pushrods out of the passenger side head, and all are bent. I would assume they are all bent on the drivers side too, but I havent taken off the upper intake yet to get to it. Yay. I can't wait to do all of this in the driveway.:worried: My dad doesnt know what hes going to do yet. And I have no suggestions, other than to not spend any more money on the stock heads. Anyone else?

[Steve-0]

Back from the dead yaaa. OK finally took the other valve cover off and yes I was correct all are bent on the drivers side too durr. But anyway, we were expecting that, not to find that some of the springs had also broke. Soooo, heads are coming off. They will not be going back on. Any suggestions for a set of heads for this car? Any for sale? Voice your opinions on heads like you all havent done that before! :goodidea:

[Viper_ed]

Slap a set of Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads on there and call it a day. Put a set on my 90 and it picked up over 70 rwhp over the Iron GT-40's that were on it with running less timing and 2# less boost.

[Pure Stock]

Slap a set of Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads on there and call it a day. Put a set on my 90 and it picked up over 70 rwhp over the Iron GT-40's that were on it with running less timing and 2# less boost.

And the E-cam helped a little too.

[Viper_ed]

And the E-cam helped a little too.

E, F, G, what's the difference? :pinkthumb:

[Pure Stock]

E, F, G, what's the difference? :pinkthumb:

Peak power checked in at, let me guess, 5,600 rpm??

[Viper_ed]

Peak power checked in at, let me guess, 5,600 rpm??

No idea. I never looked at the chart.

[Killercanary]

AFR165's would be my choice, especially in that heavy car.

[Pure Stock]

AFR165's would be my choice, especially in that heavy car.

More cubes would be my choice, via a 9.5" deck.

[Steve-0]

Over a year later....the AFR 165's came today!:thmbsup: Guess I need to start taking it all back apart again!

[Killercanary]

Over a year later....the AFR 165's came today!:thmbsup: Guess I need to start taking it all back apart again!

Nice! What cam are you going to run?

[Steve-0]

comp cams extreme energy XE270HR-14
Specs on cam:
Intake Duration at 050 inch Lift: 218
Exhaust Duration at 050 inch Lift: 224
Intake Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.512 in.
Exhaust Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.512 in.
Lobe Separation (degrees): 114

Same one that was in it before. Will that be alright with those heads?

[scott5]

wow, i cant believe i missed this thread for over 3 yrs.. But im also kinda curious what kinda of gains you get with those 165s.. I am thinking of throwing those on until i get my other motor done.. Steve did you check into the anderson ford cams?

[scott5]

p/n B-21
Same as B-31 except utilizing 1.7 R.R. N2O or S/C 8-15 lb 302 c.i.d. Best performer for 1.7 R.R., stock pistons and 6200 rpm. Great with TFS or Edelbrock heads. Minimum 30lb injectors and 80mm mass air. Recommend 3.55 or 3.73 gears. Good drivability down to 1900 rpm, mild idle, rpm range 2400-6200, works best with 89-93 EEC, needs 2600-3000 converter. Great N.A. cam for 94-95 Mustang with great drivability. With bolt-down R.R., needs 0.040" longer push rods.