Project Maxine

[RUSH2112]

This is the setup that I am going to go with. After removing the engine and doing a .30 over bore and cleanup here are the goodies that are going on:

AFR 165cc Street Heads, Pedestal, 60cc
FRPP Upper/Lower Chrome Polished Intake
FRPP B303 Cam
FRPP 24# Fuel Injectors
FRPP 1.6 Roller Rockers
ARP Head Bolts
Fel-Pro Head Gaskets
70mm Throttle Body
75 MAF Meter


Will this work? and how much HP am I looking at (the rear wheels)?
Is there something that I am missing or misquoted?

[Mater]

sounds like a good combo!

[Killercanary]

Sounds like a good combo, the only thing I'd change is the cam and I'd get stud mount heads over pedestal. Pedestals can be a PITA to get the valvetrain right in, trust me on this. Also, depending on how much power you want to make and in what RPM range, I may also reconcider the intake choice. The cobra intake isn't bad for a mild application, but there are better choices out there IMO. If you really want to stay on the mild side then your combo will work. I wouldn't expect much more than 270-280rwhp though at best.

The 165's will work great for your planned combo, but more than likely the new pistons you put in after the rebuild will allow you to run a 2.02" intake valve like those found in the AFR185.

[gmkillr]

http://airflowresearch.com/articles/article051/A-P1.htm

Check this article out, its from afr website under the article's section.
Its stud mount afr 165's w/ a ported cobra lower & stock upper w/ the stock Cobra cam making 303rwhp & 341rwtq w/ a rich tune at 12:1 a/f
Your combo should be close to this especially if you do a better cam than the stock Cobra. Id stay away from the B-cam, and either go w/ an E-303 if you want an OTS cam, but we all know the best route would to be go custom. Id also upgrade your fuel pump to a gss340 255lph fuel pump.

[RUSH2112]

http://airflowresearch.com/articles/article051/A-P1.htm

Check this article out, its from afr website under the article's section.
Its stud mount afr 165's w/ a ported cobra lower & stock upper w/ the stock Cobra cam making 303rwhp & 341rwtq w/ a rich tune at 12:1 a/f
Your combo should be close to this especially if you do a better cam than the stock Cobra. Id stay away from the B-cam, and either go w/ an E-303 if you want an OTS cam, but we all know the best route would to be go custom. Id also upgrade your fuel pump to a gss340 255lph fuel pump.


Thanks for the advice. I replaced my fuel pump last month with BBK (walbro) 255lph pump.

[RUSH2112]

Sounds like a good combo, the only thing I'd change is the cam and I'd get stud mount heads over pedestal. Pedestals can be a PITA to get the valvetrain right in, trust me on this. Also, depending on how much power you want to make and in what RPM range, I may also reconcider the intake choice. The cobra intake isn't bad for a mild application, but there are better choices out there IMO. If you really want to stay on the mild side then your combo will work. I wouldn't expect much more than 270-280rwhp though at best.

The 165's will work great for your planned combo, but more than likely the new pistons you put in after the rebuild will allow you to run a 2.02" intake valve like those found in the AFR185.

I wasn't planning on putting in new pistons, just some seals and bearing. Do I need pistons? I guess I do if I am going to bore it out. What do you think of a 331 stroker kit?

[Stangman701]

I wasn't planning on putting in new pistons, just some seals and bearing. Do I need pistons? I guess I do if I am going to bore it out. What do you think of a 331 stroker kit?

Yeah if you bore it you'll need new pistons, at which point it would be better to go with the 185's instead of the 165's. All the tests I've seen on the two show that the 185's are just as good as the 165's down low and have a few more ponys in the upper rpms. Like mentioned above AFR's website has a ton of very good articles outlining a lot of different combos. You can check those out and just try to mimic one of the combos that they tested that way you'll know what kind of potential you have. I've seen some tests in MM&FF where a stock displacement 5.0 with the 185's and I think a comp cams xe274 made in the neighborhood of 420 hp on an engine dyno. The comp xe(extreme energy) series of cams have been tested a lot and have always seemed to make good power with the AFR heads. As far as the 331 if your budget allows it would definitely be a good idea. The extra cubes would help take advantage of the new heads and would also up the compression a little. Sounds like you've got some serious plans good luck man :twothumbsup:

[Killercanary]

You mentioned a 30 over bore in your first post, so that is why I assumed you had new pistons. The 331/347 is DEFINITELY better than a 302/306. if you went that route you would need to rethink the combo though as you'd need a better cam, intake, and at the least a set of 185's for the extra cubes.

[Viper_ed]

Sounds like this project will be tough to finish up for that $2,000 budget number you were talking about.

[fork5o]

Im curious about the 185s. Could they be used if you were just doin at H/C/I swap say for a year and then decided to work on the block.

[Killercanary]

For the best price on AFR heads shipped check with Kevin at http://www.kskustoms.com Tell him I sent you, I don't think you'll find a better deal.

I have a set of AFR185's for sale, but they are pedestal and are not for the novice to install.

[Killercanary]

Im curious about the 185s. Could they be used if you were just doin at H/C/I swap say for a year and then decided to work on the block.

They will not clear the stock pistons. You'd need to fly cut them for the 185's to work, but in that case they would.

[blkp42e]

Sounds like this project will be tough to finish up for that $2,000 budget number you were talking about.

thats what i was thinking. the heads alone should be just over half of the budget. not to mention the injectors, cam maf, machinework etc.

good luck though.:goodidea:

[Viper_ed]

the heads alone should be just over half of the budget. not to mention the injectors, cam maf, machinework etc.

:yes:

[RUSH2112]

thats what i was thinking. the heads alone should be just over half of the budget. not to mention the injectors, cam maf, machinework etc.

good luck though.:goodidea:


Your all correct. It is going to be aroun $3 for just the parts and that is not including the bore or the 331 stroker kit..... Now I don't know what to do........

[blkp42e]

Your all correct. It is going to be aroun $3 for just the parts and that is not including the bore or the 331 stroker kit..... Now I don't know what to do........
just do the 331 stroker and get some mild port work done on your stock heads for the time being. and maybe if budget allows, get a better flowing upper and lower intake manifold.... that will set you at a decent building block for more serious mods such as larger cam or a better flowing valvetrain as funds become available.

that way you arent really killing yourself to pay for stuff.

remember, cars depreciate.

[Viper_ed]

just do the 331 stroker and get some mild port work done on your stock heads for the time being. and maybe if budget allows, get a better flowing upper and lower intake manifold.... that will set you at a decent building block for more serious mods such as larger cam or a better flowing valvetrain as funds become available.

that way you arent really killing yourself to pay for stuff.

remember, cars depreciate.

I agree with everything except wasting ANY money on the stock heads for porting.

[cam303]

I would suggest trick flow heads over afr. It will make more power and you can run a decent cam and a 2.02 valve without fly cutting the pistons.

[Killercanary]

I would suggest trick flow heads over afr. It will make more power and you can run a decent cam and a 2.02 valve without fly cutting the pistons.

I beg to differ. :)

[cam303]

Can provide proof!!:3gears:

[Pure Stock]

I would suggest trick flow heads over afr. It will make more power and you can run a decent cam and a 2.02 valve without fly cutting the pistons.

Now why would you go and do such a thing. Your not supposed to tell them the trick flows will make more power, now we are going to have to step up our game.:rollingfloorrlol: :hellothere:

[04yellowcobra]

For the best price on AFR heads shipped check with Kevin at http://www.kskustoms.com Tell him I sent you, I don't think you'll find a better deal.

I have a set of AFR185's for sale, but they are pedestal and are not for the novice to install.

not beating adperformance and they have free shipping!

[04yellowcobra]

I beg to differ. :)

Me too!!

[Chris00GT]

I used to run AFR 185's with an F cam on my stock 302 for a whole season. I didn't have to fly cut my pistons :) There is a big power gains going with 185's over 165's. We see customers all the time that are upset with the low power gains with the 165's. I'd love to put 185's on my 91 Notch, but with all those knock off heads on the market for half the price I bought a set of Victor Jr knock off heads. The only thing is I know I'm going to have to fly cut my stock pistons.

[Killercanary]

Jason, Kevin will beat AD, trust me on that. :D Brian is a great person to buy from too though.

Chris, how much PTV clearance did you have? As far as I know, only the TW and holley heads will clear the factory pistons with their 2.02" intake valves. the TW gets away with it due to the valve location, the holley gets away with it due to the valve being recessed into the chamber further than most.


As for the TW versus AFR debate... they are both great heads and in the end it all comes down to the combination. This topic has been beat to death so many times that if anyone wants more information all they have to do is check the corral or hardcore, there should be enough reading on the subject to last until PRP opens for next years season. LOL!

[Pure Stock]

Your all correct. It is going to be aroun $3 for just the parts and that is not including the bore or the 331 stroker kit..... Now I don't know what to do........

Here's what to do www.totalengineairflow.com :goodidea:

[Killercanary]

LOL!

Or go here...

http://www.flowtechinduction.com

Sorry Joe, I wasn't going to do it but you had to go and put up a Tooley link. :D :laughing:

To the original poster, there are a LOT of options available to you if you want to get into the custom stuff. Joe put up his favorite and I put up mine, but there are also others out there. You will find that most people tend to be very loyal to the person they chose if they were satisfied with their work. If you want to stick with box stock stuff and a "budget" build then really I don't see a need for you to get anything custom what-so-ever except for maybe a cam. The custom cam offerings are typically not much more expensive than some of the newer technology cams available off the shelf. The older alphabet cams and such are substantially cheaper, but there are much better cam profiles available today.

Is there a specific 1/4 miles ET/MPH that you want, or a certain HP number?

I still think that the best budget combo available is a ford explorer/mercury mountaineer long block with the GT40P heads (they recieved these mid year during the '97 production run). These can be had fairly cheaply, and with a cam swap and a head mill you should be in the upper 200's in terms of rwhp for far less than your budget if you plan it right. There have been a few guys getting to the 290's but I don't recall anyone yet topping 300rwhp.

[Pure Stock]

Here is a combo I found on the corral. The combo consists of a stock shortblock, GT-40P's (ported), the infamous "F" alphabet cam, a rpm efi intake(ported), 75mm T.B., Pro-M 77 MAF, Tremec trans, and a vehicle weight of 3180. N/A e.t. 11.94@115.1 This combo was daily driven according to the author of the reply.

Makes me want to build one on the cheap. :smile:

[RUSH2112]

LOL!

Or go here...

http://www.flowtechinduction.com

Sorry Joe, I wasn't going to do it but you had to go and put up a Tooley link. :D :laughing:

To the original poster, there are a LOT of options available to you if you want to get into the custom stuff. Joe put up his favorite and I put up mine, but there are also others out there. You will find that most people tend to be very loyal to the person they chose if they were satisfied with their work. If you want to stick with box stock stuff and a "budget" build then really I don't see a need for you to get anything custom what-so-ever except for maybe a cam. The custom cam offerings are typically not much more expensive than some of the newer technology cams available off the shelf. The older alphabet cams and such are substantially cheaper, but there are much better cam profiles available today.

Is there a specific 1/4 miles ET/MPH that you want, or a certain HP number?

I still think that the best budget combo available is a ford explorer/mercury mountaineer long block with the GT40P heads (they recieved these mid year during the '97 production run). These can be had fairly cheaply, and with a cam swap and a head mill you should be in the upper 200's in terms of rwhp for far less than your budget if you plan it right. There have been a few guys getting to the 290's but I don't recall anyone yet topping 300rwhp.

Thanks Paul. All I am looking for is to rebuild my engine and add some power to it. I was hoping to surpass 300HP rear wheel, while trying to do it as cheaply as possible. This is, and will be, a daily driver. It will never be raced (on the track) and eventually will be a show car (hopefully someday). The reason for my choice in cams is that I heard that was the best cam for what I want (B303). I want an agreesive cam with a SERIOUS lope/idle. I want it to be loud and sound mean. :laughing1:

[Stangman701]

Here's a short little vid I made of my 5.0 at idle. Not the best quality, I was just playing around with the idle to get it to sound just right. I can try to e-mail you the original if you want, it's a little better quality quicktime video. I have the exact same exhaust setup as you, bbk longtubes w/ matching o/r h and 2 chamber flows. The cam is a comp cams XE274 .555 intake, .565 exhaust I think are the lift specs... http://media.putfile.com/Cammed-50 :drool5:

[RUSH2112]

Here's a short little vid I made of my 5.0 at idle. Not the best quality, I was just playing around with the idle to get it to sound just right. I can try to e-mail you the original if you want, it's a little better quality quicktime video. I have the exact same exhaust setup as you, bbk longtubes w/ matching o/r h and 2 chamber flows. The cam is a comp cams XE274 .555 intake, .565 exhaust I think are the lift specs... http://media.putfile.com/Cammed-50 :drool5:


Thanks Ray. PM Sent