back to back fox versus 94-95 TB dyno results inside...

[Killercanary]

Yes, I finally did back to back dyno pulls comparing a fox style TB setup to a 94-95 setup. We've all wanted to see the results of such a comparison and I did it today. I tried to minimize the differences between the two pulls as much as I could. The only change between each pull is the TB and inlet elbow, I used the same air filter and inlet tube on both setups. The fox TB was a 75mm and the 94-95 setup was a 65mm. I would have liked to do 75 on both but I didn't have a larger 94-95 one to do it with. testing was done on an AWD dynojet dyno. Obviously the engine has loosened up a little since the last time I dyno'd it as I have more miles on it now. It was virtually brand new when I dyno'd it last. I will be dynoing the car again in a few weeks after I put on my new AFR 185 comp heads, probe shaft mount rockers, MAC 1-3/4 ceramic coated headers, and Dr. gas 3 to 2.5" X pipe that I just bought from a member here.

On the dyno:

http://www.mustangmods.com/ims/u/617/2461/242476.jpg

http://www.mustangmods.com/ims/u/617/2461/242477.jpg

http://www.mustangmods.com/ims/u/617/2461/242478.jpg

Here's what everyone wanted to see... I'm convinced that the fox is worth more power, even with the difference in size between the TB's. The car was run at FULL temperature (190*) with 90* inlet air temps on both setups, no ice or shortbelts were used. These are true unaltered results. Run 2 was the fox TB, run 3 was the 94-95 style. The car made 355/365 STD last year with the 94-95 setup. The graph is hard to see, I'll try and get better scans later.


SAE
http://www.mustangmods.com/ims/u/617/2461/242473.jpg

STD
http://www.mustangmods.com/ims/u/617/2461/242472.jpg

I can't wait to see how much power I see with the new heads and exhaust.

I have to say thanks to the great students and staff at Wyotech in Blairsville where the car was dyno'd.

[yeahloh95]

how do you close your hood with the filter like that ?

[yellowstang03]

your car is so nice....i think you should sell it to me lol

[2001GTTT]

your car is so nice....i think you should sell it to me lol


x2....looked so good in the best western parking lot lol, i will admit i did snap a pic of it on my phone :awsome:

[yellowstang03]

and i wont say what you did later that night with that pic you snapped...;)

[2001GTTT]

and i wont say what you did later that night with that pic you snapped...;)


car looked so sexy....i couldnt help it. :rofl:

:hump:

[gmkillr]

how do you close your hood with the filter like that ?

I was going to say the same thing!:rotflol::rotflol::rotflol:

[Mitternacht]

how do you close your hood with the filter like that ?

Hoods; who needs hoods? :rofl:

Same with oil filters, yeah; those things are a scam. [/ricer]

[PunisherStang]

Hoods; who needs hoods? :rofl:

Same with oil filters, yeah; those things are a scam. [/ricer]


just cut a piece out of the hood, and then you will have that filter out all the time, def custom!!! lol jk

[Pure Stock]

edit.

[yeahloh95]

edit.x2:jump:

[94Cobra]

Thanks for posting up those results KillerCanary - beautiful car by the way. I have a BBK sn95 75mm TB and wondered about the differences going to a Fox. I personally don't believe the 10mm difference would amount to more than 3rwhp difference. I did back to back dyno runs with 65 and 75 and I saw a 3rwhp improvement with the larger TB. What CID is your engine at? Are you running nitrous or a power adder? I can't wait to get my new 347 combo on a dyno.

[65 Fastback]

how do you close your hood with the filter like that ?
How about a bungee cord? LOL

[Killercanary]

Thanks guys!

As for the hood, I hope you realized that this was done for dynoing purposes only. I ran that big pipe and filter to minimize any differences between the TB tests. :)


94cobra- did you do the back to back with the 94-95 style of TB? If you did, PLEASE post that in this thread:
http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?t=753489
I'm getting bashed in it because I compared a 94-95 65mm TB to a fox 75. If you only saw a 3rwhp difference comparing a 65mm 94-95 to a 75mm 94-95 that will be of utmost importance to that thread. Please post the results with dyno graphs if you have them. Or post them here and i'll put them up over there for you. To answer your questions, my combo is a 8.89:1 compression 331 stroker than I'm currently running NA.

Here's a breakdown of the combo:

-dart block based 331 stroker with Scat forged internals
-8.89:1 compression, internally balanced
-AFR 165 60cc pedestal mount heads
-holley systemax intake
-75mm accufab fox tb/65mm FMS 94-95 TB
-FTI cam from old 302 combo
-1-5/8" shorty FMS headers
-offroad 2.5" bassani X pipe
-2.5" cat back with dynomax welded race magnum mufflers
-ASP pulleys
-24lb injectors
-190lph pump
-TKO trans
-4.10 gears
-AEM EMS tuned by me

I'll soon be adding AFR185 comp heads with the following flow numbers:
Lift .....In........out............I/E ratio

.200....154.....126.............82%
.300....210.....173.............82%
.400....253.....205.............81%
.500....281.....224.............80%
.550....291
.600....290.....230.............79%

I'll also be adding a set of MAC 1-3/4" longtubes with a 3" collector, a 3" to 2.5" Dr. Gas X pipe, and 30lb injectors. I was at 89% duty cycle on the 380rwhp run on the dyno with my 24's and they are set at ~45lbs of FP. I'm going to try and dyno the car with the exhaust and injectors before I swap the heads to see how close to 400 I can get with my little AFR165 heads.

[Mike@Predator]

man it looks like wyotech has gotten a lot bigger and nicer since i went there! nice car by the way!

[Killercanary]

man it looks like wyotech has gotten a lot bigger and nicer since i went there! nice car by the way!

Thanks! It was an impressive facility, but I was surprised that it wasn't air conditioned or that it didn't at least have fans. Everyone I met was extremely nice and I can't thank them enough again for the help and use of their facility.

[somethingclever]

Cool info Paul...thanks for sharing!


How much were you charged for the dyno time?

[94Cobra]

KillerCanary - Yes it was back to back dyno runs using 65 and a 75 SN-95 TBs; however, the dyno runs were on different days and different dynos. The 65mm run was at Big Shot and the 75mm run was at SGS. The 65mm TB was an FRPP unit and the 75 TB was the BBK that I currently run. I am not a member on Stangnet, but I will dig out my dyno graphs if you still want them. Very nice dyno numbers on your 331. I hope mine comes in with numbers as good as yours.

[Killercanary]

Cool info Paul...thanks for sharing!


How much were you charged for the dyno time?

Thanks! You have a PM.

[Killercanary]

KillerCanary - Yes it was back to back dyno runs using 65 and a 75 SN-95 TBs; however, the dyno runs were on different days and different dynos. The 65mm run was at Big Shot and the 75mm run was at SGS. The 65mm TB was an FRPP unit and the 75 TB was the BBK that I currently run. I am not a member on Stangnet, but I will dig out my dyno graphs if you still want them. Very nice dyno numbers on your 331. I hope mine comes in with numbers as good as yours.

Thanks! If you could dig up the graphs that would be very helpful. From the looks of your signature, I bet you'll be very happy with the numbers your combo lays down.

[94Cobra]

My apologies KillerCanary. The difference was 9rwhp.
The graph in this thread was made using the 65mm sn95 TB.
http://www.steelcitystangs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=292&highlight=lasota&page=3

The graph in the below jpg was made using the 75mm sn95 TB.

[Killercanary]

Thanks for the information! Do you care if I post those graphs in my other thread? Have you changed anything in your sig since you made those numbers?

[John4cam]

I think those are impressive #'s for being an Na 331....

[94Cobra]

I don't mind if you post those graphs. Both of them were made with my last 347 combo, which had a Trick Flow Stage 2 cam, R Series Intake, BBK eq. length shorties, and a Bassani catback. The combo in my current sig has never been on a dyno and was professionally assembled, unlike my first 347.

[Killercanary]

I think those are impressive #'s for being an Na 331....

Thanks John, I never expected to make this much, at least not until I put my new heads and exhaust on. I've definitely raised my expectations now though for when I do put them on! :thumbsup:

[Killercanary]

I don't mind if you post those graphs. Both of them were made with my last 347 combo, which had a Trick Flow Stage 2 cam, R Series Intake, BBK eq. length shorties, and a Bassani catback. The combo in my current sig has never been on a dyno and was professionally assembled, unlike my first 347.

Thanks! I can't wait to see what your new combo puts down!

[Pure Stock]

Dude, you have 10-14 in an electric water pump. For headers, I suggest 1 3/4" primaries. Shit, with those two mods, you oughta be on the borderline of 400 to the tires with the 165's. Are you running the power steering pump during the pulls?

[gmkillr]

Current combo+

New afr 185 cnc heads
1 3/4" longtubes w/ 3" collector
Full 3" exhaust
Meziere electric water pump
Short belt
Heads milled down to get the compression up to around atleast 9.5:1
Custom Solid Roller billet cam
Solid lifters
Hog the hell out of your Holley intake

All this would net you in the ballpark of 430-445rwhp.:laughing1:

[Killercanary]

Dude, you have 10-14 in an electric water pump. For headers, I suggest 1 3/4" primaries. Shit, with those two mods, you oughta be on the borderline of 400 to the tires with the 165's. Are you running the power steering pump during the pulls?

I was running all accessories on those pulls including the PS, and I didn't do any dyno tricks like running lighter wheels/smaller tires, shortbelt etc. I dyno'd it exactly like I drove it in there. The car was run hot too with the coolant temps checking in at nearly 190* and the incoming air was at 90*. I wanted to run the car cooler but I was a little late in getting there and didn't have time to.

I have a set of MAC 1-3/4" ceramic coated long tubes with the 3" collectors coming soon, as well as a Dr. Gas 3" into 2.5" X pipe. I'm also putting a set of 30lb injectors in it as my 24's are at nearly 90% duty cycle now. I too was hoping that with just the exhaust and running a shortbelt to bypass the PS that it'd see damn close to, if not hit 400rwhp, all with my unported AFR165 heads and holley intake, and my little old 302 cam. I'm still in shock that this combo is performing so well!

Although an electric water pump would be nice for power, I can't justify the >$400 cost for one right now. If I come up short of 400rwhp I think the justification will be much easier though. :)

Rob- I like your line of thinking! That's be sick if I could obtain numbers like that! Of coarse, if I sell my turbo kit I'd have the funds to do a high compression NA 363!

I'm really thinking I want to stay NA now.

[Pure Stock]

I'm really thinking I want to stay NA now.


There you go, I knew you had it in ya. A couple points I'd like to make about what you are trying to accomplish:

1. It is quite evident that a great deal of fortitude and perserverence are present in the likes of this project. Kind of a blue-collar minded mentality. I mean just think about it, how easy is it to just bolt on the 185's and call it a day.

2. The fact that you are sharing the info and commenting on what works and what does not work on your particular combo so others can make gains is priceless.

3. I was always a fan of doing more with less and that mentality rings true with the likes of your current project. The smaller cylinder heads and H.R. cam are a testament of the more with less mindset.

4. There are many areas that can be addressed to reduce the parasitic losses and I would exploit those areas, without a doubt. Even after the electric water pump, P/S bypass, T.B., and header swap, there is another 8-10 RWHP waiting to be unlocked.

5. And finally, there are so many 347's floating around the corral that cannot eclipse the 400 RWHP mark it's pathetic. Do not fret though, they'll be crying their under-achieving asses off, making claim that it indeed is a 363.5" mill along with the B.S. flag flying ever so highly. And that my friend is best gawd damn compliment of all.