Crossplane vs. Flatplane crankshafts ???

[Troll]

1. I'm not an engineer.
2. I'm not an engine builder.
3. I'm not going to lie. I've been reading about the new Yamaha R1 with a "crossplane" crankshaft and this got me interested.

Which sounds awesome, by the way: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtDehOO1Vy0"]YouTube- Two Brothers Racing 2009 R1 slip-on exhaust sound and apperance[/ame]

Sounds like a V4?

Anyway, does the 5.0 and/or the 4.6 have the crossplane or flatplane crank. I know this is wikipedia, but it was a quick search and it says most 90* V8s use the crossplane. Maybe the 5.0 has flat and the 4.6 is cross???

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossplane"]Crossplane - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Scheibenbremse(Kfz).JPG" class="image"><img alt="Stub icon" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/37/Scheibenbremse%28Kfz%29.JPG/20px-Scheibenbremse%28Kfz%29.JPG"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/3/37/Scheibenbremse%28Kfz%29.JPG/20px-Scheibenbremse%28Kfz%29.JPG[/ame]

I guess I'm just a retard and I've really been reading about this. My question is, if it's so freaking great, why hasn't somebody incorporated it into a production inline-4 until now?

They've been using it for racing for a few years now.

What are the advantages/disadvantages?

Hopefully, this gets some of the professionals thinking and doesn't turn into a major pissing contest.

[Ares]

I've never seen a flatplane crank in any modern V8 or V6. Had Olds, Pontiacs, Chevy and Ford motors torn apart. A crossplane in an inline 4 would be interesting. Would think it would make power with less effort.

But hey what do I know I just rip stuff apart, toss it together and beat the living hell out of it at the track. This is nothing but a hobby to me and I learn as I go.

[MBH]

I've never seen a flatplane crank in any modern V8 or V6. Had Olds, Pontiacs, Chevy and Ford motors torn apart. A crossplane in an inline 4 would be interesting. Would think it would make power with less effort.

But hey what do I know I just rip stuff apart, toss it together and beat the living hell out of it at the track. This is nothing but a hobby to me and I learn as I go.

I think Ferrari uses a flatplane crank? Idk I heard that somewhere.

[Troll]

This is straight from Yamaha's website:

In the supersport liter class, there’s always lots of talk about power. You expect that. What you wouldn’t have expected – until now – is a radically superior way to deliver that power. Introducing the 2009 YZF-R1, the first ever production motorcycle with a crossplane crankshaft. Crossplane technology, first pioneered in MotoGP racing with the M1, puts each connecting rod 90° from the next, with an uneven firing interval of 270°- 180°- 90°- 180°. This all but eliminates undesirable inertial crankshaft torque, which allows the engine’s compression torque to build smoothly and provide a very linear power delivery out of the corners. It’s a feeling that’s simply unmatched, like having two engines in one: the low-rpm torquey feel of a twin with the raw, high-rpm power of an inline 4. In fact, the new YZF-R1 is not a continuation of existing supersport development; it is breakthrough technology that represents a paradigm shift in both technology and performance.

From what I read elsewhere, the flatplane crank is easier to build, stronger and you don't have to use counterweights because the firing order keeps it all in tact.

It isn't until now that someone (Yamaha in this case) feels confident enough to put the crossplane crank into production at 14,000rpm. The main reason they did it is for (so-called) increased traction out of corners. The motor makes the same peak hp/tq numbers, but lower in the RPM range and it revs slower. This is actually a good thing on a machine like this.

A 450# machine with 180 crank hp is akin to having a 3,600# automobile with
1,440 hp. So, that would be way too much power. This was/is the case with most inline-4 1000cc motorcycles. The crossplane crank engine allows them to manage the power and put it where they want it... I think.

[biminiLX]

Intersting info.
I like Yamaha, at least the part that was in my SHO.

A 450# machine with 180 crank hp is akin to having a 3,600# automobile with
1,440 hp. So, that would be way too much power.

Debatable.
-J

[Troll]

Debatable.
-J

Ok, let me edit that... "way too much power coming out of a turn"

[wick]

Back when I had my GSX-R1000, I rode my buddys R1. My GSX-r was an extremely violent bike!! Power was unreal and viscious. Just a plain nasty feel. The R1 was silky smoothe. Like getting into bed with silk sheets. That does not compare to the fact that I was a 250lb rider and my buddy was around 175. We did a few second gear roll runs in Ohio. He jumped me and I granny shifted, but blew his doors off. Every time. We stopped and he asked to switch bikes for a few miles. He was more than impressed, as was I. R1's always have been smooth bikes. This just further proves it. But GSX-R has almost always ruled the track.

[SonofaBish]

Because of my actuarial exam, i haven't had the opportunity to read up on the new R1's setup, but I plan to read into it - i'll have to report my findings to you Adam!!

I've only really seen 1 thing on it..... There was a video of a couple Austrailian's testing the new '09 R1 vs. '09 CBR1000RR ... the CBR was their favorite in '08...

In the vid, they mentioned that the new R1 was far different than any other I4 they had ever ridden, and you really had to get used to it... they mentioned that the bike had to be ridden different, as the bottom end power was HUGE and it also didn't have the same engine-braking characteristics... I do recall them saying that AT FIRST they didn't like how much power the bike had coming out of the turns... it was hard to get it to keep from spinning the tire under hard accelleration... The top-end apparently doesn't have the same outrageous pull that the '04-08 R1's had, but it was still more than powerful enough.. they said that the little loss up top was more than made up for in the bottom end.... By the end of the day's riding, they felt that the R1 was a much better bike than the CBR and that the new engine was phenominal

From the few other things i've seen, its nothing short of an amazing engine!!!! Apparently it's far superior to any other 1000cc I4 ever made!! The only thing that dissapointes me is the looks of the bike... ugh... I'm so dissapointed with ALL of the new litrebikes.... the only one i really like is the Duc 1098 ... '04-06 R1's are still my favorite bike of all time! I do look forward to the opportunity to ride one of these new R1's, just to see what all the hype over the engine is about!

If you want to read up some good info, i'd go over to R1-forum.com.... its obviously going to be a bit bias, but i think you'd learn alot about the advantages/disadvantages/differences b/w the new engine and the traditional I4's

[SonofaBish]

Adam,

here's an article that is pretty scientific about what the corssplane crank brings to the table
http://www.ashonbikes.com/cross-plane_crank