Obama and company to the rescue.

[Gastrader1]

ITS REALLY NOT THAT DIFFFICULT TO FIGURE THIS FIASCO OUT!!





Think of it this way,

A clunker that travels 12,000 miles a year at 15 mpg uses 800 gallons of gas a year.
A vehicle that travels 12,000 miles a year at 25 mpg uses 480 gallons a year.

So, the average Cash for Clunkers transaction will reduce US gasoline consumption by 320 gallons per year for each vehicle.
They claim 700,000 vehicles so that's 224 million gallons saved per year.

That equates to a bit over 5 million barrels of oil.

5 million barrels is about 5 hours worth of US consumption.
More importantly, 5 million barrels of oil at $70 per barrel costs about $350 million dollars

So, the government paid $3 billion of our tax dollars to save $350 million.

We spent $8.57 for every dollar saved.
How good a deal was that ???

They'll probably do a great job with health care though!!

[bgblockelcamino]

but who didn't want "CHANGE"
dont' even get me started on healthcare debate. all i can say is make it affordable.

[Gastrader1]

I assure you, I did not vote for the "Post Turtle". Affordable is subject to debate, what you consider affordable others might not. Socialized medicine never has and never will work. The unfortunate people that live in countries that have it can confirm this. I have numerous friends that live in countries with socialized medicine and if it private healthcare is available, they all have it. You will die long before you get that preventive surgery. However, if you get ran over and have bones sticking out, they will fix that on the spot. The one thing for sure, I am tired of paying for all those lazy people that collect whatever type of government assistance that I am and other working people have subsidized for years. STOP all of these programs.

[Killercanary]

The one thing for sure, I am tired of paying for all those lazy people that collect whatever type of government assistance that I am and other working people have subsidized for years. STOP all of these programs.

+1

If I see another person whip out an access card in Sheetz and buy all kind of junk food along with "papers" I think I'm going to lose it. I understand some people need help ever once in a while, but I'm sick of paying for lazy ****ers who are just a leach on my wallet.

I don't have enought time or space to weigh in on Healthcare other than socialized healthcare is a joke and will not work. I deal with insurances and the games they play all day long with my physicians and its a freaking shame that they are forced to make the decisions they do in terms of patient treatments based on what the insurance companies will and will not pay for.

[mxracer652]

You know what I think is funny?

Republicans collecting Social Security, and getting free healthcare (Medicare/Medicaid), while at the same time bitching about socialized medicine.

The cognitive dissonance is just overwhelming to an outside observer.

[SonofaBish]

I, like Paul, do not have the time nor space to start into the healthcare debate..... there's a reason that all the hoops exist... i didn't create them, nor do i even know what they are... but there's a reason they exist, and its because health insurers loose millions of dollars every year on fraudulant claims...

Its starts at the bottom - quit going to the doctor for a little cough... quit suing the doctors for everything... malpractice insurnace will go down... doctors will be able to charge less, insurance companies won't have to payout so much to providers, and insurance rates will go down...

What you guys are calling "socialized medicine" will not work, nor will it happen in this country... but lets be hypothetical and say that Obama does pass what he plans... he wants to have both a gov't plan, and allow private health insurance... it'll never work... those that are healthy and can afford private, will go private and will costs will stay down ... those that arent' healthy and can't afford private will go to the gov't plan, and the gov't plan will turn into a high risk pool... a high risk pool that will take every single penny of money this government can pull out of the people.. and then taxes will go up, and the whole system will fail over again.... I mean, i don't understand what's so hard to see about that...

but what do i know, i only develop the health insurance rates that you and/or your company pays for....

[mxracer652]

Bish - Why not charge health ins based on actuarial costs, like automotive ins? You want to weigh 250 lbs, you have to pay extra, just like the driver with 3 points.

Nothing motivates people like money.

[SonofaBish]

Bish - Why not charge health ins based on actuarial costs, like automotive ins? You want to weigh 250 lbs, you have to pay extra, just like the driver with 3 points.

Nothing motivates people like money.

trust me that would be spectacular... and you are right, money talks, bs walks... but there's that whole politics thing...

Highmark is a non-profit company... as such, we are very strictly governed by the PID (Penna Insurance Dept.) ... Anything we do must be approved by the PID... and such rating actions would likely be considered "immoral" or "irresponsible" or whatever way they would want to word it in the newspapers...

ya know, the point of insurance is for the healthy peeps premium to help cover the incurred costs of the unhealthy peeps... but unfortunately, the unhealthy people are SOOOOOOOO unhealthy, that the cost cannot possibly be covered by the rest of the healthy individuals... This is a common problem in Small Groups, which is the area for which i do rating.... A group of 2 may have a total premium of $1000 per month, equating to $12,000 per year, but 1 of those people will rack up $2M in claims... so then its left on the other clients to help pay for that... i agree, its unfair, but its the downfalls of the system...

And if you want my personal opinion, and this has nothing to do with my company or any of its views... i think we, as a society, don't do the risk/reward analysis enough... I read an article a few weeks ago and i agreed with it whole heartedly... it was about the fact that we don't consider the true costs of the actions we take for medical care... if a patient is terminally ill, but a medication will help them live for another 3 weeks, that medication is ordered.. that medication may cost $200K ... If that $200K gets you another 5 or 10 years of life, is it worth it? if it only gets you another 2 weeks, is it worth it?? I think its obvious my feelings on the situation, but society does not feel that way and costs continue to rise...

[SonofaBish]

Bish - Why not charge health ins based on actuarial costs, like automotive ins? You want to weigh 250 lbs, you have to pay extra, just like the driver with 3 points.

Nothing motivates people like money.

When you think about it..... if you want a Mustang Cobra but you have 5 points, the insurance company raises your insurance so high that you can't afford that car... it deters you from getting the car... everyone says "ha, that's what you get for being a jackass"

however, if medical insurers were to do this, the public would be in an uproar.... Sure, maybe the people on this board would agree with it, but i think we all see what the general public would do if insurers would rate in such a fashion.... "oh you went and got hepatitis c... i guess you're going to have to pay your portion or die - make your choice" ... people would go ape-$hit lol

[somethingclever]

You know what I think is funny?

Republicans collecting Social Security, and getting free healthcare (Medicare/Medicaid), while at the same time bitching about socialized medicine.
.

How is paying into something (SS) for a lifetime of work and then getting it back at a later time IN ANY WAY equal to Paul's (and Brian's) example of people collecting funds (welfare/gov aid) WITHOUT paying in?

[cwh19]

if a patient is terminally ill, but a medication will help them live for another 3 weeks, that medication is ordered.. that medication may cost $200K ... If that $200K gets you another 5 or 10 years of life, is it worth it? if it only gets you another 2 weeks, is it worth it??

Thats exactly right. I'm with you on that.

[Gastrader1]

You know what I think is funny?

Republicans collecting Social Security, and getting free healthcare (Medicare/Medicaid), while at the same time bitching about socialized medicine.

The cognitive dissonance is just overwhelming to an outside observer.

MXRacer, The retired/working Republicans that I know have ever right to collect Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid since they worked and paid in to those programs much unlike those just sit back and continue to collect and breed.......... Have another kid, get a little more "Government" money. Why get an education and then a job that supports those little buggers..........

[scorpio333]

We spent $8.57 for every dollar saved.
How good a deal was that ???

The 1st number (8.57) will decrease each year and the second (1 dollar) will remain a constant. After two years what's that first number???

Not saying I agree or disagree, just pointing out a hole in the logic.

[Twin01cobra]

My advise, keep your powder dry

[mxracer652]

How is paying into something (SS) for a lifetime of work and then getting it back at a later time IN ANY WAY equal to Paul's (and Brian's) example of people collecting funds (welfare/gov aid) WITHOUT paying in?

Because you get back in excess of what you paid in, in other words, you get something for which you did not completely pay for. No different than welfare.

On top of that, participation is mandatory. I do not need the god damned government holding my hand, making sure I don't **** up. That's what liberals are all about.

[mxracer652]

MXRacer, The retired/working Republicans that I know have ever right to collect Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid since they worked and paid in to those programs much unlike those just sit back and continue to collect and breed.......... Have another kid, get a little more "Government" money. Why get an education and then a job that supports those little buggers..........

Medicare/medicaid is socialized medicine. SS is socialized retirement. Everyone gets these programs whether they pay or not, just like universal health coverage would. Why are the former programs OK, but the latter isn't?

Even people who have children & jobs are subsidized by everyone else. You have a kid, you get a tax break that someone else has to pay for. You have a kid, everyone else gets to pay school taxes to educate that child.

Like I said, it's all very amusing to an outside observer.