Kenne Bell on a built 2v is making no power.

[sutyak]

I think you would have mentioned this already, but does the car smoke at all?

If it's making boost, A/F is correct (which I'm sure Don verified on the dyno), then surely the timing is being pulled like crazy.
Does anything special need done with the knock sensor on it when boosting?

[boost_92]

I think you would have mentioned this already, but does the car smoke at all?

If it's making boost, A/F is correct (which I'm sure Don verified on the dyno), then surely the timing is being pulled like crazy.
Does anything special need done with the knock sensor on it when boosting?

It's not smoking. A/F is correct as far as I know. I'm not a tuner though but I would hope everything was correct since thats what I paid for. I'm just baffeled and a little disapointed with the whole thing!

[no1sirbutler]

Im running a 03-04 cobra tank w/dual pumps and a kenne bell boost-a-pump....ford racing 60lb injectors.... 9psi pulley.... intercooled.... sct BA2600 maf.... BBK 70mm throttle body.... ford racing shorty headers.... pypes X pipe and magnaflow mufflers and no cats.... comp cams high lift cams

Have Don check the data logs on the fuel pump duty cycle. I only ask this b/c you upgraded everything except the fuel rails, fuel line from tank to fuel rails, fuel pump driver module, and wiring for the module. Its a common problem the the FPDM wiring will overheat due to the gauge being smaller on a gt and cause fuel issues.

[Don@LRT]

Thought I'd jump in here... Tune had a datalogged 13* of spark initially, then upped to 15* made little difference - this was just a starting point, but usually the KB 2vs make maybe 360ish just starting the tune process - we keep timing low until WOT fueling is correct. A/F was 11.5 to start then 11.8, again, made little difference. FPDC was fine, did not seem to be blowing out spark. Plenty of injector and MAF counts were well below max. All other data, except STFTs were OK - see below.

This car also had what ALL KB 2vs with cams have - bank to bank differences in A/F usually the result of KBs bypass design, which they don't admit to. Manually hold the bypass and the trims usually get right in line. Though it may be a dead cylinder exacerbating this too - and causing the power loss. Can't tell from a log because there is no way to monitor individual cylinders.

Even if spark is a bit low and A/f conservative, it ain't taking away 100 RWHP. KB recommends 11.0 A/F and 18* of spark, but running it their way and a bit leaner with less spark is all a wash power-wise in my experience.

In my experience, and what I mentioned is on the cars I have seen that are making way less power than they should, there is a mechanical issue with the motor - either cams not in right or some other major problem. If it were my car, I'd start with getting to a shop that had a Snap-On scanner, and knew how to use it then monitor injectors, ignition, etc. Then do a compression test, leak down test and maybe even smoke test it. Then start tearing into the motor to double check the cams - the best of places sometimes do make errors - we are all human. It definitely is not right and I would NOT romp on it until the issue is found and fixed.

To get a good tune on a car it needs to be mechanically sound, then things go real smoothly. The KB bypass issue can usually be tuned around by averaging things, but it's not the best way to do it - the best way is for KB to come up with a mechanical fix.

It's easy for another tuner or shop to say it's in the tune, but they are not there pushing the buttons and to have a tune be 100 RWHP off, the tune would be so bad there would be other issues cropping up as well.

Hope this helps and good luck figuring it out.

Don

[Chargin2004GT]

^ agreed it really seems like everything is working. Has to be a build issue I think. Not to knock anyones skills!

[boost_92]

Well there you have it. Now as you all have heard from Don about all the specs and I heard from Tim and he gapped the plugs at .032. Now I don't claim to be a mechanic in any way but I have some mechanical skill and can follow detailed instructions. The only work I did on the car was install the blower and that seems to be working cause its making boost. As for the person who built the engine.....All I can tell anyone is what I was told. And here it is. I was told the engine was built by a shop in jersey and it was built to handle 25lbs of boost. Now if that is true or not I personally can not tell anyone. But what I do know is that the car made 274rwhp and 290tq on a dynojet when it was N/A and it ran real strong. But I dont understand enough about engines to see how it could run so good N/A if the cams were in wrong and not run good with a blower. Thats y im sort of in agreement with the tech from Kenne Bell and Modular Powerhouse when they tell me that if the car ran good before and made good power then adding a blower and exterior engine hardware would only raise compression and all else would be worked out in the tune. I give all tuners alot of props for doing what they do. And i'm not blaming anyone. I'm just looking for a little insite.

I'm sure you all can understand how I feel when i add it all up for you...$3000 (KB kit)...$450 (injectors)...$350 (tank and pumps)...$250 (B-A-P)...$275 (sct ba2600)...$350 (tune)...etc = $4675 and it only put down 280rwhp.

Once again thanks to everyone for the help.

[Rob LaSota]

I'm sure you all can understand how I feel when i add it all up for you...$3000 (KB kit)...$450 (injectors)...$350 (tank and pumps)...$250 (B-A-P)...$275 (sct ba2600)...$350 (tune)...etc = $4675 and it only put down 280rwhp.

Sometimes builds go perfect and run great, sometimes you have to dive back in and do some troubleshooting. Thats part of the game. Nothing is black and white. I've built my fare share of cars and run into my share of problems as well. Anyone who has built even a few cars will agree.

All we can tell you is what our data says, and it (most of the time) doesnt lie. We know the outputs look good (AFR, Timing, etc etc) but there is obviously a problem. Sometimes problems stand out, yours didnt. We spent a lot of time on your car making it as right as we could (changing the pulley for you, fixing the boost gauge, etc).

Check the basics, do a leakdown and compression test, yank the blower off and double check everything. I would get rid of the timing adjuster as well.

Also, it's going to be VERY hard for a tech at KB, or anyone else who hasnt seen the car to help diagnose the problem. Thats like calling a doctor, telling him your side hurts, and having him recommend a kidney transplant.


Rob

[no1sirbutler]

I agree w/ Don and Rob...take it to Tim since youve already had the car there and have him check it out and see if he can find something wrong w/ it.

[RUTHLESS]

Take it to a shop before you hurt the engine. The internet people can guess all they want but until you are hands on its all just a guess.

[wick]

For sure needs to go to a shop. Stupid question, how does it idle? Plug wires on right? You losing boost through a gasket or something somewhere?

[Wolfpack Speed]

Dan,

Good speaking with you the other day and I am sorry to hear about the troubles you are having with your car. As per our phone conversation, I personally feel that you have a mechanical issue. I don't know Don or what he knows or doesn't but Jon has complimented his work in the past so I am confident it isn't tune related. I don't troubleshoot cars over the phone or the internet so it's hard to say what it is. Hell, troubleshooting cars in person is difficult enough as it is! You mentioned that you would like to swap out the FRPS, I have a spare that you can borrow if you like. PM me your address and I will drop it in the mail!

Not trying to hijack your thread but Don made some good points in general that I wanted to touch on for the members here, my comments are not directed towards you or your car in any way...

Tuning isn't rocket science, but it's not hard for one to start chasing their tail when the car isn't mechanically sound. We tune a lot of cars out of my shop and the only time we seem to have issues is when a car that we have never seen, touched or prepped...shows up for a tune. We have a checklist that we go over with each and every customer to try and eliminate any potential issues and determine whether the combo and supporting hardware will enable us to complete a dyno tune. With that said, even the cars that make it through the basic checks, we cant forecast how the car is going to respond to tuning. Many times there are hidden issues that don't show until the tuning process begins. Even once the tuning process begins and complications are present, it can still be very difficult to determine what is really going on...especially when you know nothing about the car or who worked on it!

We have come across situations like this many times! What kills me are the customer that think because they showed up with a car and some money, we are supposed to perform a miracle and fix their problem on the spot! We always go out of our way to promptly diagnose and correct the issue, but that just doesn't always work out they way everyone hopes for! Next to the customer, there is nobody else that wants to see the customers car come off the dyno, tuned and in 1 piece, then a respectable shop and or calibrator!

If you get on my dyno for a tune, you will be billed for such, regardless of the outcome, only exception being an issue on our end. My rant is provoked by the very small number of ex customers and one particular shop owner, that feel the need to talk shit on us because things didn't work out for them or because of how we do things. It's one thing if you leave your car for a dyno tune, that leaves the mechanic/calibrator time to trouble shoot and fix any and all issues, if the customers desires. It's another thing to screw up a tuning day for everyone else because someones car isn't mechanically sound. The other issue at hand is when a customer gets an additional bill for the additional services provided. The same people previously mentioned try to drag us through the mud for charging for our services. Apparently there are charity performance shops out there that work for free, we aren't one of them!

Mike

[EricS197]

Well there you have it. Now as you all have heard from Don about all the specs and I heard from Tim and he gapped the plugs at .032. Now I don't claim to be a mechanic in any way but I have some mechanical skill and can follow detailed instructions. The only work I did on the car was install the blower and that seems to be working cause its making boost. As for the person who built the engine.....All I can tell anyone is what I was told. And here it is. I was told the engine was built by a shop in jersey and it was built to handle 25lbs of boost. Now if that is true or not I personally can not tell anyone. But what I do know is that the car made 274rwhp and 290tq on a dynojet when it was N/A and it ran real strong. But I dont understand enough about engines to see how it could run so good N/A if the cams were in wrong and not run good with a blower. Thats y im sort of in agreement with the tech from Kenne Bell and Modular Powerhouse when they tell me that if the car ran good before and made good power then adding a blower and exterior engine hardware would only raise compression and all else would be worked out in the tune. I give all tuners alot of props for doing what they do. And i'm not blaming anyone. I'm just looking for a little insite.

I'm sure you all can understand how I feel when i add it all up for you...$3000 (KB kit)...$450 (injectors)...$350 (tank and pumps)...$250 (B-A-P)...$275 (sct ba2600)...$350 (tune)...etc = $4675 and it only put down 280rwhp.

Once again thanks to everyone for the help.

Im kinda confused of how it was a strong running N/A car that was built to take "25lbs of boost".... Wouldnt it have an 8.5:1 compression ratio?


Dumb question, but you don't have any way of getting ahold of who owned the car last to verify or have any kind of documentation that came with the car that might give away what kind of build was done prior to you owning it?

60lb injectors seems a bit overboard for 7 psi though... Maybe I'm wrong

[boost_92]

Im kinda confused of how it was a strong running N/A car that was built to take "25lbs of boost".... Wouldnt it have an 8.5:1 compression ratio?


Dumb question, but you don't have any way of getting ahold of who owned the car last to verify or have any kind of documentation that came with the car that might give away what kind of build was done prior to you owning it?

60lb injectors seems a bit overboard for 7 psi though... Maybe I'm wrong

I can no longer get ahold of the previous owner. And like I said im only going by what I was told. But as for for the 60lb injectors....Yes they are overkill at the moment but I planned for the future. I plan on running 15psi pulley once everything gets figured out and I was told by many people that they have seen 39# and even 42# injectors max out around 500rwhp. And yes the car ran strong for a 2v car that was n/a. 274/290

[Wolfpack Speed]

I can no longer get ahold of the previous owner. And like I said im only going by what I was told. But as for for the 60lb injectors....Yes they are overkill at the moment but I planned for the future. I plan on running 15psi pulley once everything gets figured out and I was told by many people that they have seen 39# and even 42# injectors max out around 500rwhp. And yes the car ran strong for a 2v car that was n/a. 274/290

Sensor is in the mail, sorry that I forgot...very busy and losing my mind

[boost_92]

Sensor is in the mail, sorry that I forgot...very busy and losing my mind

Just got the sensor and tried it but no change. So I'll be in touch on monday to see what we can setup. Thanks mike.

[Wolfpack Speed]

Just got the sensor and tried it but no change. So I'll be in touch on monday to see what we can setup. Thanks mike.

Sounds good bud...