Turbo - Thermal and Airflow management

[biminiLX]

Good info. Bob.
Looks like I got some planning to do, check the other thread I'm starting today for the 427 Turbo rebuild.
-J

[Black Vert]

Damn, I like that Chad!
The first pics looks like it would be too wide but the last looks like it fits the stock cowl lift perfectly.
Can you get a side/angled finished pic?
Are you going to paint it to match the hood?
I may have to steal this idea but with a small cowl hood :)
-J

I had to cut out about 8 inches from the center of the vent to make it fit between the raised cowl of the hood. Yes going to paint same color as hood. You can steal this idea if you let me steal the grill delete idea

[Black Vert]

You can see the logical place for an extractor up front with +.365 under hood and -1.02 outside ...

Looks like I put it in the right place then

I just located so that if water goes through the vent it will run between the radiator and the belt. Gotta wait till spring to see if it works like it should.

[Black Vert]

Nice! This will sound wrong, but it's not as bad as I thought it might look :D I like it ... you didn't happen to grab a measurement across the flange at the back (widest point) before you cut it did you?

When you say cut and bond, how was that done and what does the seam look like?

Also, notices in a recent mag, Cervini's now makes a flanged louver panel the list for 05-09 cars ...

I didnt measure before I cut it, but I measured how wide it is now plus the pieces I cut out, its around 30.5 to 31 inches at the widest point.

I cut the middle section out with a chop saw leaving about a 1/4 inch on both sides, then sanded on a belt sander until both pieces fit together perfect with the crosses in the vent lining up. Used plastic epoxy to glue it together, when done shouldnt be able to see the seam at all.

I like those cosworth and cervinis louvers, except the price, maybe one on each side of the cowl back towards the winshield.

[biminiLX]

Big time impressed Chad, looks like it turned out perfect and should look even better painted, hope to see it in person.
And deal on the sharing idea, I just need to see what hood to use this with if the '03-04 heat extractor style doesn't fit.
If you do the grill delete, I'm calling the '93 Cobra running horse to make floating in the grill, get your own idea for that :)
-J

[Martin0660]

I cut the middle section out with a chop saw leaving about a 1/4 inch on both sides, then sanded on a belt sander until both pieces fit together perfect with the crosses in the vent lining up. Used plastic epoxy to glue it together, when done shouldnt be able to see the seam at all.

REALLY nice work. Amazing that you got the crosses to all line up and look clean like that .... really cool.

I like those cosworth and cervinis louvers, except the price, maybe one on each side of the cowl back towards the winshield.

I have sort of talked myself into a set of the cossie louvers. Wanting to install them beside the cowl, behind the core support but in front of the strut towers. Just need to find a set :D

[Killercanary]

Although I do not have any experience as of yet as to how my planned setup will work, but I selected my front bumper and hood all to help with the heat the turbo will generate once I finally install it. I have the saleen heat extractor and it is positioned right at the low pressure area of the hood directly behind the radiator. The saleen style heat extractor places this vent at the proper location and aids the negative pressure of that area by putting a small raised lip at the front opening of the heat extractor hole. I picked the cervini stalker front bumper as it has a large opening below the bumper to allow air in and past the intercooler.



My entire hot side of my turbo kit is Swain white lightening coated. I bought the kit that way and have never installed it so I can not attest to its effectiveness. My kit also came with a turbo blanket.

There is a ton of information on heat and the removal of it on the corral under the road race section. There is so much information there on this subject it is mind boggling. If I have some time soon I'll look up a few threads and paste them here. The shelby hood vent has been covered in detail there as well as the effects of adding a lower air dam to the car such as the one found on I believe 1988 bronco's. I plan to "box" in my radiator before I put the turbo on.

[Killercanary]

Here's my kit mocked up so you can see the swain coating.







Here's an underhood pic where you can see the placement of the hood vents better.

[Black Vert]

Never thought of looking under the road race section, i'll have to check it out. Nice hood, i've seen one like it for a fox but it didnt look good, didnt go with the body lines of a fox, looks sweet on your car though.

[Black Vert]

Been doing some research on IAT temps and its seems that an Air/Air just isnt going to cut it for the 1/4 mile. With IATs around 180 deg at the start and dropping by only 15 deg by the end of the 1/4. Just not enough air moving through the IC from a stop. Been looking at Air/Water , what do you guys think?

http://www.frozenboost.com/product_i...421a373abb26e2

http://www.frozenboost.com/product_i...68f29dfcb072cd


Maybe mounting something like this.

[Martin0660]

I'm amazed your IAT's are that high at the start of the pass. No idea on the "5.0" stuff, but where is your sensor on that car? Is it affected by coolant temperature?

On my stuff I installed the MAT sensor in the stock location and am definately seeing some effect of coolant temp. I'm moving my MAT to the upper intake as part of my changes this winter. It's pretty critical to be acurate for me now that I'm speed density (it's a big factor to the calculations).

The Frozen boost combo is a slick set-up for sure. You wont beat a well designed A/W set-up if you want to mess with Ice. One of the 2.3 guys was still seeing MAT's below ambient after a pass :D

[Black Vert]

My IAT sensor is in the lower intake, factory sensor and location, so I'm sure its getting heat soaked. I guess I should move it to the upper intake or in the charge pipe before the throttle body to get more accurate readings. I like the fact that the IC could be moved from in front of the radiator to inside the fender and the prices dont seem to bad either.

[Martin0660]

I've never looked at the 5.0 processors in any detail ... on the 2.3 stuff the IAT sensor (actually ACT) never did anything until 87 / 88 and then it only added 2* of timing is it was below 62 degrees. I know Ford started to do some things with the IAT sensors starting in 89 on the super coupe, but not sure when they put any real strategy on the 5.0 stuff. There is some chance it's not really hurting performance if it's reading false. I would move it anyway just so you get good date.

Good prices on those set-ups for sure. I looked at them A LOT as part of my changes. decided to stay A/A because of the driving I do and hot lap type things but A/w was sure looking attractive to me as well.

[wick]

Damn, I just sold a nice A/W cooler too...

[sutyak]

Here's some intake temp info I gathered this year. Not sure if I posted it on here or not.
Remember I'm running a little IHI RHB52 turbo with an upgraded compressor wheel. In other words it's a hot runner. :)

Before:
Outside temp: 60*F
Idle temp: 84*F
Max temp: 126*F

After
Outside temp: 60*F
Idle temp: 66*F
Max temp: 116*F

Max intake air temps dropped from 126*F to 116*F in the 1/4 mile, is down to 84*F by the end of the 1/4 mile runout, and 66*F by the time I picked up my timeslip.

Changes:
- Opened bumper 1.5"
- Boxed in intercooler
- Wrapped ambient pipe with reflective heat tape
- Made front air duct with 1.25" tube running to air filter

I had also made a heat shield for my air filter.
Logs showed no improvement using the filter heat shield so it's been removed.

This is an IHI RHB52 turbo with a 16T compressor wheel upgrade @ 11psi.

PICS:

[Black Vert]

I've never looked at the 5.0 processors in any detail ... on the 2.3 stuff the IAT sensor (actually ACT) never did anything until 87 / 88 and then it only added 2* of timing is it was below 62 degrees. I know Ford started to do some things with the IAT sensors starting in 89 on the super coupe, but not sure when they put any real strategy on the 5.0 stuff. There is some chance it's not really hurting performance if it's reading false. I would move it anyway just so you get good date.

Good prices on those set-ups for sure. I looked at them A LOT as part of my changes. decided to stay A/A because of the driving I do and hot lap type things but A/w was sure looking attractive to me as well.

My timing is locked out at 20 deg, havent got to messing around with the spark tables yet, so the IAT sensor probably has no effect on performance. But my concern is with high intake temps and detonation. If I run 93 octane at the track I burn a head gasket every time. So I mix 116 with 93 and havent had a head gasket problem since, but that just seems to be a bandaid for the real problem. I have an ignition box with boost retard but havent messed with it either. When I move the IAT sensor to the charge pipe I will have better data to diagnose with. Heat management is my main project this winter, with safety a close second (roll cage) so when I dip into the 9s

[wick]

Your running too much timing. 17-18 degrees for that kind of boost.

[Martin0660]

Again, never playing with a V8 processor, you could likely build a ACT transfer to let you run more base and pull timing with temperature.

With my squirt I have a table that pulls timing based on MAT. Muck like you said , it works but is taking performance away and that data is what got me looking at all this in detail.

If you can figure out to transfer the license, I own a copy of binary editor I will never use again. You are supposed to be able to do that. Way better software than cal edit ;)

[Martin0660]

Your running too much timing. 17-18 degrees for that kind of boost.

Lol. The trick is to bring timing in approachin the torque peak, be at minimal timing at the high cylinder pressure range, but you can generally bring a LOT back in after the peak (although it may not add a lot of power)

[Black Vert]

I have BE and EA already, thanks though.

I thought 20 was safe for 17-18 psi. I'll lower it to 17 deg and try it. I'm trying to keep it on the safe side with the stock block and all. 11.5 afr and shift below 6k .