Warranty Paranoia (a.k.a. why did i buy a new car?)

[phillysrt4]

After reading some information on tuning and finding TSB 11-7-7 (related to 5.0's having unauthorized mods and telling dealers how to find them and void the powertrain side of the warranty) I decided to give FRPP a call to get some more information on gears and changing the parameters in the computer to accommodate the ratio change.

As many of you out there know, the 11+ computers have a setup in nonvolatile memory that shows how many times a tune has been flashed. What FRPP told me was that it doesn't have to be just ignition timing, fuel, or valve control that will increment that flag. ANY changes to ANY parameters (even changing to a different diameter tire where you have to change the revolutions per mile to keep the speedo accurate and the ABS/TC working right) will increment that flag so when a tech plugs in their computer to talk to the car's computer, that will come up and they will go down the flowchart in the TSB to determine if your powertrain should be voided.

Fortunately this TSB only seems to be directed at 5.0's, but who knows. Perhaps with the "dealership mentality" of "well if you have a v6 and want more power just buy a 5.0" means they won't bother or think about anything like this with a v6. But who knows.

So, if it is a mod that is going to require any parameter changes, I either noid about the warranty or make sure I have about 5k in reserve so I can replace any parts out of warranty.

[somethingclever]

good info...








start saving

[phillysrt4]

Yep, pretty much. No mods that require a retune or parameter changes this year, so probably just a few boltons.

[Mark Aubele]

What I don't understand is why people expect a manufacturer to honor a warranty after a car has been tuned.

[yeahloh95]

it should only void the warrenty if the aftermarket piece tune or other parts caused the problem

[phillysrt4]

What I don't understand is why people expect a manufacturer to honor a warranty after a car has been tuned.

I wasn't looking for a tune per se. I was looking to change the gears so that I wouldn't have to change the tune to get more power. The problem is the way they set up the nonvolatile memory storage it cant discern if you made a change because you changed gears or tire size or if you made a change because you wanted 5 billion degrees of timing and no fuel. A change is a change.

[Cam99]

I can understand voiding a warranty if a car is tuned for a nitrous system, turbo, blower, cams, blah blah, but changing tire diameter, or putting on a cai with one the canned sct or similar tunes is NOT going to damage the car. The canned tunes are very conservative just for that reason. I'm out of tyhe loop, but didn't some of the FRPP mods come with a tuner? I'm almost sure. They surely shouldn't void the warranty from that and I doubt they could tell if the flash was from their sct tuner, or anybody elses sct tuner if it's flashed back to stock.

[phillysrt4]

it should only void the warrenty if the aftermarket piece tune or other parts caused the problem

There is no magnusson moss warranty act up here. There are a few acts that come close to being the same thing, but its not quite the same thing

[phillysrt4]

I can understand voiding a warranty if a car is tuned for a nitrous system, turbo, blower, cams, blah blah, but changing tire diameter, or putting on a cai with one the canned sct or similar tunes is NOT going to damage the car. The canned tunes are very conservative just for that reason. I'm out of tyhe loop, but didn't some of the FRPP mods come with a tuner? I'm almost sure. They surely shouldn't void the warranty from that and I doubt they could tell if the flash was from their sct tuner, or anybody elses sct tuner if it's flashed back to stock.

I'll double check on the FRPP site if you can get gears with a tuner/calibrator.

As for the flashing, there is a flash counter in nonvolatile memory, so if you flash it to a tune it increments the counter by 1, then flashing it back increments the counter again. So flashing something in then flashing it back is clearly shown in the computer.

Of course if its just a gear change there is no need to flash it back. They could look at the PCM, see it was flashed once, see that the tune itself wasn't changed and thus keep the warranty intact for everything but the gears. I'm just not sure if I want to go through all that hassle at this time.

EDIT - I'm trying to decide between 3.73's and 4.10's. What if I get 4.10's but I find they're too tall and I want to switch again? Those 2 flashes could be interpreted as "he flashed a tune in, broke something, then tried to flash it back to stock". So to be on the safe side I'm just not going to bother with gears at this time and only lightly mod it with things that the stock tune knows how to compensate for.

EDIT 2- Cam- here's the TSB http://thehorsepowerjunkies.com/blog...tuning_tsb.pdf

[Cam99]

There is no magnusson moss warranty act up here. There are a few acts that come close to being the same thing, but its not quite the same thing

F-ing Canada LOL. You need to become very friendly with your local ford dealership. They have control weather they submit it under warranty or deny it

[phillysrt4]

F-ing Canada LOL. You need to become very friendly with your local ford dealership. They have control weather they submit it under warranty or deny it

True. The last couple of times I was in they were slammed with work. Hopefully when I can swing by tomorrow I can have a moment to talk with the service manager.

[scorpio333]

This is the first I've heard of the flowchart in the TSB. However, I it doesn't there's a way for them to tell what changed. On paper they need to prove you did something specific to cause a failure. We all know the reverse is most likely the case, you need to prove it.

A good friend of mine has worked for Ford here and there and he's said he's never checked for such things. Now I could see someone bringing in something with big ($$$) problems and the dealer not wanting to cover it or the factory denies the claim until more info is gathered.

All that said, I just ordered a tuner for the F150 this morning. Live dangerously.

[Mark Aubele]

I wasn't looking for a tune per se. I was looking to change the gears so that I wouldn't have to change the tune to get more power. The problem is the way they set up the nonvolatile memory storage it cant discern if you made a change because you changed gears or tire size or if you made a change because you wanted 5 billion degrees of timing and no fuel. A change is a change.

I certainly agree that gears should not affect warranty, thought we were talking about tunes. I fail at reading comprehension.

[Stangman701]

If you want the gears bad enough just deal with the speedometer being off. Once you drive it for a few days you'll get used to it. I know you got the math skillz to figure out X RPM in Y gear = Z speed. At that point your tach becomes your speedometer.

[Mark Aubele]

If you want the gears bad enough just deal with the speedometer being off. Once you drive it for a few days you'll get used to it. I know you got the math skillz to figure out X RPM in Y gear = Z speed. At that point your tach becomes your speedometer.

Problem with that is the car is governed to something stupid like 112 mph.

[Cam99]

It might throw the traction control. stability control, whatever ford has into a panic attack? It does with my 26" tall dr's on the camaro which shuts off all the nannies (win for me!) but you might not want that on a dd. If it doesn't then heck yeah, dont worry about the speedo being off

[phillysrt4]

I certainly agree that gears should not affect warranty, thought we were talking about tunes. I fail at reading comprehension.

No, I fail at writing. I used "tune" too many times where I should have said "parameters". That was my bad

[phillysrt4]

If you want the gears bad enough just deal with the speedometer being off. Once you drive it for a few days you'll get used to it. I know you got the math skillz to figure out X RPM in Y gear = Z speed. At that point your tach becomes your speedometer.

It might throw the traction control. stability control, whatever ford has into a panic attack? It does with my 26" tall dr's on the camaro which shuts off all the nannies (win for me!) but you might not want that on a dd. If it doesn't then heck yeah, dont worry about the speedo being off

You both are right (about being able to calculate real speed and the TC getting weird). I hate driving with warning lights on a DD.

Problem with that is the car is governed to something stupid like 112 mph.

Yep, or 180 kay which I agree is dumb. When I went to do a dyno pull I was expecting the usual 4th gear pulls. So I started the pull and got to 180 and all of a sudden it just hung there and I got a reading of something like 231 hp. Then I realized "oh, governor" and did the 3rd gear pull to get my power numbers (which btw, 3rd gear with stock 3.31's = 160km/h [about 100mph] top speed so in reality you only need 4th for the last 20km/h to hit the limiter)

[Viper_ed]

Bottom line is you are concerned about warranty, then don't piss with modifying anything.

[phillysrt4]

Bottom line is you are concerned about warranty, then don't piss with modifying anything.

That's the plan I have now. When I bought they car they seemed cool with bolt ons gears and a tune, but I decided that gears would be fine for now just to give it a little more pep. Then I see this TSB on the 5.0's and it makes me just say "its not worth it. its fun enough as it is in stock form anyway"

I can say that things seem to have really "cracked down" since my SRT4 days with respect to warranty work. Sure I see the point if you do something stupid and blow up your car that Ford shouldn't have to pay for it, but it almost seems lately with all these stories on the internet that car companies are just looking for excuses not to back up their own work. Even if it is indeed their manufacturing defect, why give them an excuse?