Turbo Focus build #2

[sutyak]

All welding done and parts painted. I paint my welded exhaust parts to keep them from rusting too quickly. Some of my welds from 5 years ago had not rusted yet after painting them. Painted with 1200* grill paint and cured on the grill. The only thing left in Phase 1 should be routing the water lines, mounting everything and checking out the tune. I hope to wrap up tomorrow/Wednesday.

[Martin0660]

What is that big oval shaped thing in the lower right? LOL ;)

[wick]

What is that big oval shaped thing in the lower right? LOL ;)

A potato cooker??

[sutyak]

A potato cooker??

What is that big oval shaped thing in the lower right? LOL ;)

Rofl. I try to ruffle as few feathers as possible while still have fun with my car. I can always weld in a dump pipe or "test pipe" :) for the track. I also daily drive it and take it on long trips when possible. The Freestyle has taken over as the primary vehicle since the kiddos came along.

[sutyak]

Turbo is on and no apparent oil, coolant or exhaust leaks. Tomorrow after work I'll do some datalogging and adjust the tune as necessary. I didn't get a chance to drive it today, just let it idle up to temp to check for leaks.

[sutyak]

The turbo is on and spooling and running fine with zero leaks. This is actually the first time my car has not had exhaust leaking from somewhere.
The bad news is the wastegate spring is only 6psi instead of 8psi, so it wasn't a very exciting drive. The tune is overly rich since dropping from 11psi to 6psi, but I'll touch that up a bit until I get a new spring or boost controller. More pics to follow.

Next project is the house, not the car so it will be some time before I get back to it.

[sutyak]

I believe I determined I have a 7.2psi spring in the wastegate. I had the spring out twice and I'm fairly certain it was green. HERE is the guide from Tial. I would have sworn the boost gauge didn't go above 6 though, but I guess I was trying to watch a lot of things a the same time.
I'm not sure if I'll go with the 8.7psi or the 10.1psi spring. Probably the 10.1psi...

Installed photos:

Without manifold heat shield


With manifold heat shield (modified stock heat shield)








Sorry no decent under-car photos. I tried to take some tonight and it just didn't work out. Next time I'm under the car in the daylight I'll take some.

Overall I have to say I'm extremely happy with how smoothly the build went. I am also a firm believer in v-band clamps now!
I've only had it out for one drive to help dial in the tune, so I can't really comment yet on how fast the turbo spools etc. I should have more input after this weekend, and my also post data log info.

[Martin0660]

Very nice Mark

Do you have you gauge and wastegate working from the same reference point in the system or is there some difference?

For example ... getting your boost signal off the compressor housing and your boost gauge off the vacuum tree after the throttle body? If that's the case, the difference is the pressure drop across your intercooler for example.

On edit - I thought you said before, but I forget what do you use to tune?

[sutyak]

Very nice Mark

Do you have you gauge and wastegate working from the same reference point in the system or is there some difference?

For example ... getting your boost signal off the compressor housing and your boost gauge off the vacuum tree after the throttle body? If that's the case, the difference is the pressure drop across your intercooler for example.

On edit - I thought you said before, but I forget what do you use to tune?

Bob I think you hit the nail on the head my friend. The boost gauge is at the manifold and the wastegate reads directly from the compressor housing.
I tune with the SCT Pro Racer Package.

[Martin0660]

Good deal, then you can get a little more boost by changing your gate reference to the manifold or swapping spirings as you discussed.

That's not a bad drop across the intercooler, but it will likely go up as you increase flow.

There is merit to both control points, I personally like my gate referenced to the manifold so that I'm tuning to a manifold pressure. The upside of referencing compresser pressure is knowing where the turbo really is on the map.

[sutyak]

Good deal, then you can get a little more boost by changing your gate reference to the manifold or swapping spirings as you discussed.

That's not a bad drop across the intercooler, but it will likely go up as you increase flow.

There is merit to both control points, I personally like my gate referenced to the manifold so that I'm tuning to a manifold pressure. The upside of referencing compresser pressure is knowing where the turbo really is on the map.

Maybe you can help me decide then. I've never run a boost controller, so I'm not sure what psi spring to start with. My goal is to run 20-25psi with this turbo about this time next year. Now I need to choose a boost level I can have fun with but also make sure not to pop this motor. So will a boost controller be able to bleed off enough boost from an 8.7psi spring to make 25psi?

Perhaps I should buy the boost controller first and leave this current spring. That actually makes more sense after I type it out. I can ease up the psi until the MAF counts are right where they were with the IHI, which I knew was a safe pressure.

[sutyak]

I forgot to post pictures of the car. I figure most people here have never seen it.

[PaxtonShelby]

Looks nice!

I hope your house project is INSIDE!! HOLY CRAP - they're talking 100 degrees on Saturday...

[Martin0660]

I have to say Mark, I might not be the best opinion on this. It's been so long since I've used anything except an exceptional EBC (AMS 500). My controller references manifold pressure with a MAP sensor then uses solenoids on both sides of the waste gate to put it spot on set point. It's great control, but not cheap. With that, I am limited to a little over 2:1 on manifold pressure (ran 10# spring, max 25 psi manifold pressure) I've gone to a 15 psi spring lately.

When I ran manual, with a 10 psi spring I was also roughly limited to 25 psi. I think control is best at 2:1, but guys are running a lot more with manual controllers.

I have played with a few other guys cars with manuals lately and to be honest they frustrate me after knowing what I have. You get into spikes and drop off.

In my Precision gate I can stack springs so I could go to 30 in the gate if I needed to. If I didn't have my controller, I would likely use springs.

As I started with, my opinion is rather skewed after I learned what good boost control really is ;) lots of rambling here, not sure if it helps.

[sutyak]

I have to say Mark, I might not be the best opinion on this. It's been so long since I've used anything except an exceptional EBC (AMS 500). My controller references manifold pressure with a MAP sensor then uses solenoids on both sides of the waste gate to put it spot on set point. It's great control, but not cheap. With that, I am limited to a little over 2:1 on manifold pressure (ran 10# spring, max 25 psi manifold pressure) I've gone to a 15 psi spring lately.

When I ran manual, with a 10 psi spring I was also roughly limited to 25 psi. I think control is best at 2:1, but guys are running a lot more with manual controllers.

I have played with a few other guys cars with manuals lately and to be honest they frustrate me after knowing what I have. You get into spikes and drop off.

In my Precision gate I can stack springs so I could go to 30 in the gate if I needed to. If I didn't have my controller, I would likely use springs.

As I started with, my opinion is rather skewed after I learned what good boost control really is ;) lots of rambling here, not sure if it helps.

Yes that does help! I'm not sure I'll need the AMS 500 after Googling it, but it's good to know about it. This is what i was considering: TurboSmart Dual Stage Mechanical Boost Controller.

[sutyak]

Looks nice!

I hope your house project is INSIDE!! HOLY CRAP - they're talking 100 degrees on Saturday...

Partly inside. So many projects lined up it's insane. Next up is replacing windows in the basement, then completely remodeling the downstairs bathroom, more car stuff, then walling up a room into the basement. This is what you get with a house built in 1919 and not remodeled since the 80's. :D

[sutyak]

I'm going to get a vac block and use the large vac port on the manifold that used to connect to the evap solenoid.
I purchased a TurboSmart dual stage mechanical boost controller so I can work my way up to 10-12psi.

I updated the overly rich 12psi IHI tune last night and loaded up the leaner tune today. The tun is basically dead on now where I want it (11.0-ish AF) in WOT. The only timing the knock sensor pulled was actually between shifts. I think that is due to needing to reset the IAC as the RPMs are hanging a bit.
At 7psi the log is showing 790 MAF counts. The max MAF counts at 12psi with the IHI was 880, so the GT2871r certainly seems to be flowing more air.

The spool time is great, and the respool time is even better. I'd say the GT is basically the same spool time as the IHI. I'm not sure how since the IHI is such a smaller AR turbine, but I'm not complaining. :D

[phillysrt4]

absolutely cool project! I've been a fan of the 2871 (as well as the 3071 and 3076) for quite a while. Total respect on having the gear to fabricate it yourself. I'm looking forward to seeing updates both on the build and tuning progress.

[sutyak]

Thanks for the kudos, phillysrt4!

This is the boost controller I went with:


I bought it open-box from ebay, so I wanted to make certain it wasn't busted up so I took it apart. This is what is inside. This one is indeed new.








For those wondering how this works, it is a bleed-off type boost controller. That means it will bleed off a preset amount of air going to the wastegate.
This controller has two stages of bleed-off, controlled by a switch. The only electronic part in this system is the solenoid that opens the path to the second bleed dial. It appears it would work fine as a single-stage without any 12v signal.

The dials are reverse threaded. Turning counter-clockwise closes the bleeder valves. Turning clockwise opens the bleeder valves to increase boost.

I have not installed this yet. I ordered a vacuum block and it won't be here until later this week. I'm going to clean up some vac/boost lines so my boost gauge, boost controller and bov all get the signal from the same vac block.
I'm going backpacking/flyfishing for a few days next week, so don't expect any updates until after.

[phillysrt4]

That does look mint. Good find.

I like where you're going with the vac line setup.