coyote turbo tuning questions

[phillysrt4]

Can someone give some information on how difficult it is to tune a coyote motor for boost? I'm not familiar with the coyote computers at all. Is there a reasonable reference online that can give me some details on tuning the coyote motor with information on boosted coyotes? Im curious if the fundamentals of tuning (AF, timing, etc) hold true or with the variable valve timing there are other factors to consider. Is there one handheld over another that makes it easier to tune? Just exploring some options now in case a boosted setup is in my future over the next 3-6 months. I want to be conversant in coyote tuning when I go to the dyno/tuner.

EDIT - i come from the world of speed density so I'm all about PV=nRT. Mass air is new to me too.

[phillysrt4]

Ok thanks to GIYF I got a primer on MAF tuning (i interpret as making subsitutions into PV=nRT so that you are solving a different equation). The thing I am having trouble finding more details on how the engine adjusts stock so I have a better understanding.

[Troll]

From Hellion website:

Complete System Price - $8,495.00

(Complete System Includes 47lb/hr injectors and Programmer with Base Tune Installed)

This doesn't make you feel comfortable ??? 8,500 bucks and you get a "base" tune. Good Luck !!!

[phillysrt4]

Its comfortable, but "base" tune implies there is more on the table. Plus I want to understand tuning beyond fuel and spark. Im curious how tuners change the cam profile table, or if the stock parameters are so good there is no need to adjust them.

I may not be going hellion. Lots of fabrication where I am so I was contemplating going custom so I want to know more if I choose that route.

[burntire]

Do you have experience with the SCT Pro Racers Package?

[sutyak]

Do you have experience with the SCT Pro Racer Package?

This is what I use to tune my turbo Focus. SCT has a fairly decent user forum. It will take a while to dig into and figure out what table is for what, but you'll get it. As for the variable cams, I'm not sure what you'll find there in the software. I don't know whether Ford adjusts any spark timing at the same time the variable cams kick in, or if it's completely MAF driven, since the software would adjust fuel automatically given your MAF table values. So you might have one additional spark table to play with.
If you do want to start tuning yourself, I recommend getting the Pro Racer Package now while you're N/A and start data logging and analyzing the output against the variables/tables in the software to get familiar. You'll also need an SCT tuning device, like the XCal X4, which actually performs the flashing and streams the data to the data logging software (SCT Live Link).

[yeahloh95]

i have an x4 and really like it

[Mark Aubele]

I looked into doing the tuning on my car myself, but with the VCT and all the additional parameters I decided to just eat the 250 and get a remote email tune done, which I am very happy with. He wouldn't even "touch" the tune on the car until I had sent him logs. Took two revisions to get it spot on. Once it warms up and I can get it on an actual track and under race conditions he said he would look them over again and make sure it's safe.

I know HPTuners has at least a beta version available, but I read that even if you purchase the Pro Racer's package from SCT some parameters aren't accessible? Think you have to take a class to access everything.

[phillysrt4]

Do you have experience with the SCT Pro Racers Package?

This is what I use to tune my turbo Focus. SCT has a fairly decent user forum. It will take a while to dig into and figure out what table is for what, but you'll get it....If you do want to start tuning yourself, I recommend getting the Pro Racer Package now while you're N/A and start data logging and analyzing the output against the variables/tables in the software to get familiar. You'll also need an SCT tuning device, like the XCal X4, which actually performs the flashing and streams the data to the data logging software (SCT Live Link).

i have an x4 and really like it

This is some great advice! I don't want to have to tune myself per se, but like I said I want to be conversant in tuning and understand what's going on with the tune and appreciate why my tuner is doing what they're doing. Going this route and datalogging right now is something that would be really fun to do regardless as it will add a dimension of knowledge that I would really like to have. Plus once I am dyno tuned I can continue to log on the street to confirm the tune is valid.

Thanks guys!

I looked into doing the tuning on my car myself, but with the VCT and all the additional parameters I decided to just eat the 250 and get a remote email tune done, which I am very happy with. He wouldn't even "touch" the tune on the car until I had sent him logs. Took two revisions to get it spot on. Once it warms up and I can get it on an actual track and under race conditions he said he would look them over again and make sure it's safe.

I know HPTuners has at least a beta version available, but I read that even if you purchase the Pro Racer's package from SCT some parameters aren't accessible? Think you have to take a class to access everything.

That is my plan (remote tuning) as you can still get great bang for the buck, but I have some esoteric reasons for learning about the coyote tuning.

[Mark Aubele]

This is some great advice! I don't want to have to tune myself per se, but like I said I want to be conversant in tuning and understand what's going on with the tune and appreciate why my tuner is doing what they're doing. Going this route and datalogging right now is something that would be really fun to do regardless as it will add a dimension of knowledge that I would really like to have. Plus once I am dyno tuned I can continue to log on the street to confirm the tune is valid.

Thanks guys!



That is my plan (remote tuning) as you can still get great bang for the buck, but I have some esoteric reasons for learning about the coyote tuning.

First thing I would do is pick up an X4 box and datalog. Once you look through the logs for a while I think that will keep you busy and give you a clue whats going on. It's pretty cool to look through them. You can just leave the car stock and check out the stock tuning.

[phillysrt4]

First thing I would do is pick up an X4 box and datalog. Once you look through the logs for a while I think that will keep you busy and give you a clue whats going on. It's pretty cool to look through them. You can just leave the car stock and check out the stock tuning.

That's my plan. I am going to point and click to an X4. This looks like fun! :)

[phillysrt4]

Just to make sure, this is the one you're talking about for the data logging side, right?

http://www.sctflash.com/products.php?PID=74&VID=#2

[sutyak]

t even if you purchase the Pro Racer's package from SCT some parameters aren't accessible? Think you have to take a class to access everything.

Yes, this is true. I have seen cases where a dealer's SCT Pro Racer Package has more options available than the version they sell typical users. Being in software myself, I find this unethical as they do not advertise the differences or provide any option for upgrade. That being said, I haven't come across anything that has prevented me from tuning my car to it's full potential.

[sutyak]

Just to make sure, this is the one you're talking about for the data logging side, right?

http://www.sctflash.com/products.php?PID=74&VID=#2

Yep. Use LiveLink on a computer to perform logging and review logs:
http://sctflash.com/LiveLink.php

[phillysrt4]

Ah.... okay that's the piece I was missing.... so the X4 is a box between the OBD2 port and the laptop and acts as a data pass through to my laptop where it gets logged?

[sutyak]

Ah.... okay that's the piece I was missing.... so the X4 is a box between the OBD2 port and the laptop and acts as a data pass through to my laptop where it gets logged?

Yes, although it looks like you can perform logging onto the X4 itself. It will be much more convenient to review the logs on a laptop in LiveLink.
The logs are just csv files, so you an pull them into Excel and remove any wild/erroneous values easily. It's also nice to sort and group data together in Excel where you can't see it graphically in LiveLink.

[phillysrt4]

I'm all about Excel! :) I'll be ordering an X4 (if I cant get one locally)

[Seer]

Yes, this is true. I have seen cases where a dealer's SCT Pro Racer Package has more options available than the version they sell typical users. Being in software myself, I find this unethical as they do not advertise the differences or provide any option for upgrade. That being said, I haven't come across anything that has prevented me from tuning my car to it's full potential.

this is far from unethical. The dealer versions or versions after you have been trained on the package enable you to make adjustments to ETC settings. Do you really want someone who does not know what they are doing messing with ETC? For instance, setting 1% pedal pressure to WOT?

[Seer]

SCT by itself does not lend you the proper tables to edit the TiVCT tables in a coyote fully. You need to export your logs and perform varying equations on them to get the proper values, then reimport them back into SCT. Needless to say, there aren't many people who fully modify those tables successfully.

I remember reading that future HPTuner releases would enable this.

[sutyak]

this is far from unethical. The dealer versions or versions after you have been trained on the package enable you to make adjustments to ETC settings. Do you really want someone who does not know what they are doing messing with ETC? For instance, setting 1% pedal pressure to WOT?

That's probably not the best example. The are limitless ways a user of the pro racer package can damage their motor due to incorrect values. The values they don't open up are things like individual cylinder spark timing, where the professional tuner can squeeze out one or two more HP on the dyno vs. the end user.
Don't misunderstand my statement. Selling different versions is absolutely not unethical. Selling two pieces of software and calling them the same when they are not is.