sutyak's TR3650 Rebuild/Upgrade

[sutyak]

Decision made. I'm buying the gear upgrade kit from Pro-Force. It's certainly more total than I wanted to spend on this transmission, but still less or the same as if I buy something else and try to retro-fit it. Many more details once the kit comes in.


I will say that Stan at Pro-Force has been excellent. He took the time to answer numerous emails from me to ensure I had everything correct before ordering.
What really sold me on this upgrade is that from all the kits he has sold/built not a single one has come back damaged!

[Martin0660]

Good to hear you got a direction. Remember when these guys talk power ratings, they assume a "mild" clutch upgrade and less than ideal tires. You dead hook one and you can kill anything. Clutches kill more parts than anything, clutch choice is the most vital thing you do along with tire pressure... If my stuff comes close to dead hooking, you will see me going up in tire pressure for the next pass.

Lots of bad info out there on these transmission upgrades because someone heard something, or the guy selling simething said what they sell is better. EVERYONE has had failures, and there are two sides to every story.

[sutyak]

Good to hear you got a direction. Remember when these guys talk power ratings, they assume a "mild" clutch upgrade and less than ideal tires. You dead hook one and you can kill anything. Clutches kill more parts than anything, clutch choice is the most vital thing you do along with tire pressure... If my stuff comes close to dead hooking, you will see me going up in tire pressure for the next pass.

Lots of bad info out there on these transmission upgrades because someone heard something, or the guy selling simething said what they sell is better. EVERYONE has had failures, and there are two sides to every story.

What is your clutch preference? I am leaning towards a dual friction. Hoping for a lighter effort but stong grip. I've also heard that a clutch that has no slip will cause damage.

[Ares]

Following this thread. I am in same boat regarding transmission decisions.

[sutyak]

The billet 1-2 and 3-4 shift forks from AMP came in today. These things are monsters. Stan from Pro-Force recommended 1.25" roll pins for billet forks, and it's now obvious why. I'm glad I ordered them with the gear set because longer roll pins were not included with the forks. In hindsight I would have been ahead to also buy the billet forks from Pro-Force.

I believe the transmission I'm working on already has the "gorilla" forks, but I went ahead with the billet while I was at it. I only want to build this transmission once.

3-4 on left and 1-2 on right


gorilla 1-2 fork and billet 1-2 fork


3-4 fork and billet 3-4 fork


I asked them to glue on the bronze pads. Looks like they just used RTV. I already cleaned off that excess.

[Martin0660]

What is your clutch preference? I am leaning towards a dual friction. .

just enough to hold the power, not enough to break shit.

i would look into a Ram power grip HD for the principals of it ... Maybe check air gap and a small shim to soften it up a bit.

not sure what those use, but I have a 10.5" 26 spline sitting around ( maybe those are 11"?)

[sutyak]

just enough to hold the power, not enough to break shit.

i would look into a Ram power grip HD for the principals of it ... Maybe check air gap and a small shim to soften it up a bit.

not sure what those use, but I have a 10.5" 26 spline sitting around ( maybe those are 11"?)

It's 11". I came across the SPEC SS twin disc in my research that that also looks like a good choice for my car's torque level and general driveability.

[Martin0660]

I am in same boat regarding transmission decisions.

ProShifting / dog rings / faceplates will change your world. Be careful, lead times are terrible long from folks like Liberty's.

It's 11". I came across the SPEC SS twin disc in my research that that also looks like a good choice for my car's torque level and general driveability.

I would consider the McLeod RXT before that. It's what I'm now using, pedal effort softer than stock, will hold a ton of torque, can shim / adjust between pates if inclined.

I do not have experience with Spec's twin stuff, but the typical approach to holding powder in their normal diaphragm stuff is to jack up the base pressure in the pressure plate ... that makes it harsh.

[sutyak]

ProShifting / dog rings / faceplates will change your world. Be careful, lead times are terrible long from folks like Liberty's.

I would consider the McLeod RXT before that. It's what I'm now using, pedal effort softer than stock, will hold a ton of torque, can shim / adjust between pates if inclined.

I do not have experience with Spec's twin stuff, but the typical approach to holding powder in their normal diaphragm stuff is to jack up the base pressure in the pressure plate ... that makes it harsh.

I've heard enough votes for the McLeod RXT that I think that is what I'll go with.

[sutyak]

The new 1000hp gear set from Pro-Force Performance came in today and WOW are these gears beefy! :D


The kit includes:
- New 26 spline input shaft (different than the typical 26 spline upgrade) with 4th gear
- New 3rd and 4th gears
- New cluster gear
- 1qt Mobile One Sythetic ATF
- 2qt Synergyn Syngear-II (relabeled)

The stock gear ratios are:
3.38, 2.0, 1.32, 1.0, .67
New ratios will be:
2.90, 1.91, 1.37, 1.0, .58


So 1-3 and 5 are stretched out a bit more, which will make 1st more useful at the drag strip. 5th will really turn into a gas-sipper gear.

Very useful details from Stan at Pro-Force:
"First off, this gear kit includes the 26 spline input shaft. This shaft is made like the TR3550/TKO input shaft in that the synchro cone is a separate piece that fits on the end and there is a thrust washer that fits against the back side of the input for the thrust bearing to roll on.

Additional gears included are the cluster gear, second gear, and third gear. The remaining gears are stock gears that are re-used.
Now, these gears have to be from the later production TR3650 because the helix angle on the drive teeth are different for some of the gears. The 2003 mid-year production received these newer style gears. To see which gears you presently have, look at the cluster gear. There is a small double-wide gear near the middle that has a step-up between the two halves on the newer production gear. The edge of the gear is smooth across both surfaces for the early style gears. If your cluster has the step, then it also has the newer first gear, reverse gear, and reverse idler gear that are required. If no step, you will additionally need those three gears to make your set.

The gear kit comes with one quart of Mobil-1 Synthetic ATF and two quarts of Synergyn Syngear-II which is relabeled by G-Force as GF-2000. This is needed to prevent pitting on gears made from this strong alloy. It is recommended to only fill it with these three quarts and not the full 3.0 Liters. Keep this same mixture in the transmission any time it is changed. There will be some additional gear noise (slight whine) from these gears as the teeth are more coarse.

As I said before, there is some grinding to clearance the inside of the front housing to accept the larger input shaft, oh, and for the cluster shaft too.

If you use a 2001, or 2005-2010 fifth gear (0.68) your ratio will be 0.58. If you use the 2002-2004 fifth gear pair (0.63) your ratio will be 0.53. There exists a custom fifth gear pair that will produce a ratio of 0.69. (By the way, that same custom fifth produces a ratio of 0.81 when used with the stock TR3650 gear set.)"


Typical 26 spline upgrade on left, new on right:



New on left is a two-piece design:



The new 2nd and 3rd gears:



Stock 2nd vs. new:


Stock 3rd vs. new:



Stock cluster gear on top:



I'm currently waiting on more parts to come in. A syncro kit I ordered had some missing blocking rings.

[Stangman701]

Wow, I would have never expected there would be such a difference between the upgraded vs stock gears. Very cool to see them side by side like that!

[PaxtonShelby]

Awesome looking stuff!

[Ares]

Interesting. Now these gears would not work in the 3650 in my car now. As it is a 2001 production. I do still have the original which is from late 2004.

[Cam99]

wow, nice looking pieces. Should be a hell of a transmission when you are finished with it.

[sutyak]

I'm still juggling this trans rebuild with a general busy life. I ended up ordering some new syncro parts rather than reuse them and they just arrived today. Hoping for some time this weekend to get all the gears on and bearings pressed on.

I had to extend the arms on my gear puller by 17" to reach the 1st gear!


It might be tough to see, but the engagement tabs on the 1st gear blocking ring has significant wear. It's mashed in probably a couple mm.


While reading another trans build I copied the idea of heating up the spacers for an easier reinstall, and wow it works perfectly.
I fired up the grill, put the spacer on for a few minutes, and it slid right in place. A few minutes later it cooled down as snug as ever.

[sutyak]

A little more progress. All gears are on the main shaft now. I just need to get it to a buddy's house to press on the bearing below 5th. Shockingly all the other bearings went on without the need of a press.
I was also surprised to learn the races in the bell housing do not get pressed in. They just drop in. I thought I had a bad bell housing, but Stan at Pro Force ensured me I was not crazy and that is how they are supposed to fit.
Next up is grinding some parts of the bell housing for fitment of the GForce gear set, shimming the bearings, then final assembly. Unfortunately it will likely be another month before I get a chance to get it in the car.
If anyone is curious I'm using Lubegard green assembly goo for the assembly lube.

Needle bearing part number for reference:


A look at how the main shaft mates with the input shaft:

[sutyak]

I got another few minutes yesterday to work on this. I had to remove some material from the bell housing for the larger gear set. Material had to be removed from the lip near 4th gear on the input shaft, and around the base of the counter shaft.
I'm stuck at the moment on the bolt that holds in the reverse gear in the center section. The head stripped on me. I'll pick up from there this evening.








Almost ready to start shimming.

[sutyak]

Shafts are shimmed and it's basically ready to assemble. I might have this thing together this week! I doubt I'll get it into the car until early June, though due to an upcoming trip.
The shimming was easier than I expected. The races in the bell housing just drop in. Under the bell housing races is where the shims go. The races in the tail end need pressed/hammered in.
The TR3650 manual specifies using a dial gauge to measure the end play, while prying up on the 5th gear cog. A basic mic worked just as well. I'm a bit surprised there is no specified preload on the tapered bearings, just end play of between .001"-.005". Mine actually has zero end play, which is the way I wanted it.
Holding the main shaft full of gears and getting the counter shaft in place is quite a trick. I found it easiest to set the full main shaft in place, then push up on the input shaft with one hand while angling the counter shaft in with the other.

Rather than drill the stripped reverse gear bolt and use an easy-out I opted to just weld a spare bolt to it so I can reuse that odd sized bolt again.

[PaxtonShelby]

Looking good! Any news on how the old Focus is doing?

[sutyak]

Looking good! Any news on how the old Focus is doing?

Haven't heard from the guy in a while. A week after he got it home the turbo bearings went out. I worked with him and Turbo Labs to get it rebuilt at no cost. Since then all has been quiet.