Let's discuss widebands and datalogging options

[Killercanary]

I'm in the market right now for a wideband setup for my car so that I can do my own tuning via my EEC Tuner. I've been reading up on them for the last two days and my head is spinning. From what I've heard and gathered I need at a minimum a wideband O2 setup with RPM capability and a way to datalog this information. I was going to get the AEM wideband because down the road I'm planning to run their stand alone, but they do not offer a solution for the RPM input or datalogging with their stand alone gauge. I have read up on the F.A.S.T., PLX, Autometer, and Innovate setups. I like the gauge style setups better than the other options for ease of mounting. It seems that the Innovate setup is the nicest for datalogging and they offer WB's with RPM inputs.

Bob Myers mentioned on here before that the AEM WB setup can be used with the Innovate SSI-4 as the SSI-4 will take the 0-5volt output of the AEM gauge as well as an RPM input. These features along with the log works software that comes with the SSI-4 will allow me to datalog my AF versus RPM so that I can accurately tune it. I thought that just by having the gauge and a friend ride in the car that I could get by without a way to plot AF versus RPM for tuning, but after talking to a guy that has the AEM he said that the gauge is a little delayed in terms of what it shows on the gauge and what its actually doing at that RPM. He said that the values I would see on the gauge actually happened a few hundred RPM before they appear on the gauge, but by datalogging it with software it would be accurate. This would make it very difficult to tune without a way to datalog it.

The SSI-4 looks appealing, but the directions look a little overwhelming to me in terms of hooking up other inputs such as injector duty cycle and even the RPM input for the box.

Innovate also makes the XD-16+ which is similar to what I'll have with the AEM/Innovate combo, but it will cost less to get the AEM/Innovate combo by about $100 I think. Plus I like the AEM gauge better.

Does anyone have any input on this? I want to get one ASAP.

[blkp42e]

I have an AEM UEGO that datalogs ( i think )

http://www.aempower.com/ViewCategory.aspx?CategoryID=67

[George C]

thts alot to read

last year i bought a Inovative LC1 for my tuning. I use HPtuners for the GMs and on my MVPI pro theres an input for a wideband. i run my wide band thru the MVPI pro and it along with the rest of my software is scanning during my logs. its nice cause i can play back all the log of the wide band along with it.

now the inovative has its own scanner/logger but i decided not to use it since i can incorporate it into my software and make changes alot easier with only one scanner open

[SonofaBish]

along with what quik said,
the innovative LC1 and LM1 are definitely the most popular in the GM market... i've really never heard a bad thing about either of them. The LM1 is a standalone unit as well as can be linked up (i think) the same way the LC1 can....

I bought the PLX wideband b/c there was a group purchase that i had posted about... 225 shipped.. i'll let you know after this weekend what its like... but the people from that GP that have already tuned with it are very happy. its like 285 regularly, which is still much more budget friendly than the LM1 and others

edit: this is what i got
http://www.plxdevices.com/products/dm5/afrsmcombo/

[Viper_ed]

My Wide Band Commander will datalog, RPM, MAF Voltage and TPS. It also has an output to be used with any stand alone engine management system. One of the nicest features is that it will datalog without a laptop in the car and that log can be downloaded for viewing at a later time.

There are also outputs for nitrous control that can be programmed for specific criteria such as a certain A/F range, TPS setting, etc. to only allow power if the criteria is met.

[Killercanary]

I have an AEM UEGO that datalogs ( i think )

http://www.aempower.com/ViewCategory.aspx?CategoryID=67

That is the gauge/wideband I want, but it does not datalog. It does have an output though I think (according to what Bob wrote on here before) can be sent to the SSI-4 from Innovate and it can datalog.

Quik- I like the LC1+, but after I add a gauge to it it'll cost me $100 more than the AEM/SSI-4 combo and it looks to do the exact same thing.

Sonofabish- That gauge/wideband looks very similar to the AEM, but it too can not datalog on its own.

Ed- the wide band commander looks awesome, but its a little too pricey for me at this point. I just want something that can datalog AF ratios versus RPM, and if I can do a few extra things like monitor TPS or duty cycle that is all the better. I want it as a permanent install so that I can constantly have an eye on the AF just in case my pump starts to go bad, an injector gets clogged, etc.

[yeahloh95]

SUBSCIBING

[Viper_ed]

Ed- the wide band commander looks awesome, but its a little too pricey for me at this point.

Keep an eye out on the corral. I see them going cheap there. That's where I found mine for $200 shipped. Also check Running With The Devil Performance. He runs specials on them from time to time for something like $385 shipped. His specials are usually advertised on modularfords.com. I think that's where Ray (Stangman) got his at.

[billyNOTnice]

I use the AEM 6 in 1 gauge and i wired it to my anderson ford motosport pms, then use InterLOG software on my laptop to data log.

[Rodeheaver's]

get the one that KBCobra has, it is the best working wide band i have ever seen...

[George C]

yea for mine i have about 350 into it. im happy with it. it does what i want it to do

[Martin0660]

I geuss you read the other thread where I put all the numbers and links up. I have been real happy with the AEM gauge display and SSI-4 for logging. If I had more / additional channels needed, I would go with the AuxBox as it adds a ton of capability for not a lot more money. I chat with a guy that has it, and he does AMAZING stuff with his, particularly the acceleromters, HP calculations, etc.

I dunno about any gauge "delay" but will frame it a little different. The wideband is delayed if its in the exhaust pipe away from the engine event anyway, and none of them can tolerate the heat to get them closer (especially the Innowaste). The event happens, then the residual shows up in the pipe, how fast can it be? Plus your wideband is reading an average of what 4 cyclinders, and on a V8 you are only looking at one bank unless you go with duals. I dont think that is unique to AEM, but the nature of reading exhaust gas? WB is part of the puzzle, lots of guys are tuning off them. One more point, I use my gauge disply for trends, but surely not for tuning. I'm lucky to get a glance at it on a pass, but it is nice to be going down the road, look over and see if its fat, lean, or generally okay. I go to the data logs to make adjustments with Tweecer as all of that needs load versus rpm.

I will also add that I do have a little bit of issue with the SSI-4 logging RPM. I have the signal coming from my tach output on my ignition box, but sometimes when you open the logworks, it sort of just doesent start that channel (reads zero). Simply shut down the logwork, open the configuration, start logworks, and it works. Strange, and I suspect its due to my ignition box as innovate sure put enough warnings in their documentation. either way, I'm aware of it now, and just make sure its started before I make a run I want to log.

If you are interested, come see my stuff at the track someday. I'm running a tiny turbo right now, so not really going to be at any test and tunes, but am usually there Saturdays. Let me know ahead of time because I just dont normally take the laptop to a regular race day. You can see a log and play with the setting stuff and see if its right for you. Also once i get a real turbo back together, I will likely be going to get some dyno pulls to baseline log the mass air meter for that conversion. We could see their tailpipe wideband against the AEM by matching up RPM.

Let me know if i can help.

Bob Myers

[Martin0660]

That is the gauge/wideband I want, but it does not datalog. It does have an output though I think (according to what Bob wrote on here before) can be sent to the SSI-4 from Innovate and it can datalog.

A little more info, the AEM puts out a 0-5V signal that can be datalogged any number of ways. If you have a good fluke meter that record, it would work too. AEM gives you a calibration table that converts volts to AFR or Lamda. The Innovate stuff is just ready to accept the 0-5V = an air/fuel ratio

Bob Myers

[Killercanary]

Thanks for all of the input guys. I ended up ordering the AEM wideband and the Innovate SSI-4.

Bob, thanks for the input and offer. I have a strong feeling that I'll be contacting you. I read through the directions online last night and the RPM pickup signal scares me a little. I have high hopes for this setup though and I can't wait to get it installed!

[KBCobra]

get the one that KBCobra has, it is the best working wide band i have ever seen...

Its an innovative LC-1 with a digital dynotune guage. Has never failed me yet...

[Martin0660]

I read through the directions online last night and the RPM pickup signal scares me a little.

Me too ;) Like I said, you need to make sure it starts logging when you fire it up, but you can see that from the dashboard view. If its not reading, shut it down, run the set-up utility (actauly just open it) then start again.

Make yourself a good plan for what you are going to wire to which channel, you will see in the directione, #1 has to be RPM and there is a specific one for duty cycle too.

Bob Myers

[turbostang3.8L]

i use the AEM wideband... it has datalogging abilitys

[Killercanary]

i use the AEM wideband... it has datalogging abilitys

What are you using to datalog with it? Do you simply mean that it has a 0-5volt output?


I got mine installed and the wire ran to where they need to be. I still need to hook up the ground and power and have the bung welded in and I'll be done with the AEM install. I'll tackle the Innovate SSI-4 after I get the wideband up and running. My SSI-4 didn't come with any instructions, it only has the CD which I have not installed yet. Did yours come with directions Bob?

[turbostang3.8L]

What are you using to datalog with it? Do you simply mean that it has a 0-5volt output?


I got mine installed and the wire ran to where they need to be. I still need to hook up the ground and power and have the bung welded in and I'll be done with the AEM install. I'll tackle the Innovate SSI-4 after I get the wideband up and running. My SSI-4 didn't come with any instructions, it only has the CD which I have not installed yet. Did yours come with directions Bob?

i have not datalogged yet but from what i understand you have to buy this plug unit... wire it up into another plug to fit your lap top.... i think

[Martin0660]

The AEM has two outputs.

One is a straight 0-5 V signal that can be logged any number of ways.

The other is a serial output. This can be linked to other devices, or taken to a laptop for logging with a windows utility (I forget which?). What it gives you is a AFR reading with a weak sample rate.

The problem, is that anything you are trying ot tune, really needs two things minimum (AFR and RPM) and better three points (AFR, RPM, and load). If you just want to know the AFR, the serial logging works, but what will it be referenced too?

Bob Myers