UAW strike - Legit or BS?

**phillysrt4** · 09-24-2007, 11:53 PM

Just curious what people think about the strike. I personally think its BS, but having lived in philly im biased against unions. I watched a greedy union defend lazy, seniority protected a$$wipes at the expense of the customers (im talking about the SEPTA union). Based on the brief things I've read about why they are striking, it seems to me that its pretty much the same thing.

You know, as much as I take pride in American cars and how they have made strides to compete with their foreign counterparts in quality, performance, ergonomics, and styling, I can see this is pretty much the beginning of the end of another manufacturing segment that we as Americans are going to lose. Only when its too late and a major source of American based manufacturing jobs are lost will we realize how much our own greed has f***ed us over.

**Cam99** · 09-25-2007, 12:07 AM

Originally Posted by phillysrt4

Just curious what people think about the strike. I personally think its BS, but having lived in philly im biased against unions. I watched a greedy union defend lazy, seniority protected a$$wipes at the expense of the customers (im talking about the SEPTA union). Based on the brief things I've read about why they are striking, it seems to me that its pretty much the same thing.

You know, as much as I take pride in American cars and how they have made strides to compete with their foreign counterparts in quality, performance, ergonomics, and styling, I can see this is pretty much the beginning of the end of another manufacturing segment that we as Americans are going to lose. Only when its too late and a major source of American based manufacturing jobs are lost will we realize how much our own greed has f***ed us over.

I think that most unions have been corrupted by greed and lost the true reason they were created.

**SV1000s** · 09-25-2007, 09:45 AM

ditto!

**One Sweet Day** · 09-25-2007, 10:00 AM

Originally Posted by Cam99

I think that most unions have been corrupted by greed and lost the true reason they were created.

well said

**mineralrob** · 09-25-2007, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by Cam99

I think that most unions have been corrupted by greed and lost the true reason they were created.

X2 I'm in a union and it has done nothing for me except take money from my check monthly

**Viper_ed** · 09-25-2007, 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by mineralrob

X2 I'm in a union and it has done nothing for me except take money from my check monthly

I'm sure it goes to pay for someone's Cadillac though!

**phillysrt4** · 09-25-2007, 10:47 AM

I agree with all of your sentiments regarding unions.

The one in Philly for SEPTA really sucks. In addition to getting paid far more than what they're worth, no one in the SEPTA system pays ONE DIME for their health insurance! Meanwhile there are stations in bad shape and needs repairs and they have 2 and 3 people doing the job that one person could do. Some of their conductors are rude and dont have to care because they know they cant get fired because of union seniority.

In the end who pays? Everyone in Philly who uses the transit system. They are about to raise fares again. Just to step on a bus will cost 1.70 (more if you pay cash instead of getting a token) and services suck (some buses and all but one regional rail line run just ONCE an hour on weekends, for example). People are getting fed up and they are causing a viscious cycle where ridership is going to decline and fares are going to go up to the point where the system cannot be sustained.

The same thing is going to happen IMO with the auto industry. The unions are going to take and take and take until the industry just collapses and we have no domestic auto makers anymore.

There are many states, like Arizona, that are Right to Work states. You are not required to join the union even if you are working in a place that has a union. We need to extend this to the nation. Its the only way we're going to stand a chance.

**phillysrt4** · 09-25-2007, 02:06 PM

UPDATE:

Just heard at on CBC 1 (canadian radio)

The GM's Oshua plant in Ontario shut down Plant #1 and 3,000 workers were laid off. This plant produces the Impala.

Sources say the truck plant has only 3 more days worth of parts. After that they are going to lay people off.

Plant 2 which produces grand prixs and buick allures could shut down within the next 48 hours should the strike continue.

Thanks UAW!! way to screw everyone because you're too f***ing greedy for your own good.

**Twin01cobra** · 09-25-2007, 02:15 PM

Does'nt suprise me one bit, the unions are not strong like they were back in the 60's-70's. Those workers may end up looking for new jobs or have to take big paycuts to get their jobs back.

**Ares** · 09-25-2007, 06:26 PM

I passed the GM Sheetmetal plant next to US Steel Irvin works. I thought it was funny to see them striking in front of the place when it's suppose to be shut down anyways.

GM lost 2.2billion back in 1998 when they striked at only a few plants. Now a national strike like the UAW did against Ford in the 70's will put GM in very very bad shape and probably put alot of these workers out of jobs. I've seen what happens when unions strike with companies that are hurting...plants close and then they have no job.

**burntire** · 09-25-2007, 06:40 PM

Average CEO salary in the early 80's was 40 times that of the average worker.

Today it is 400 times the average worker.

Upper management gets richer as they cut your pay and benefits.

I am glad to see someone has the nuts to strike unlike the bunch of puss-y's in the Pilots Union!

**phillysrt4** · 09-25-2007, 07:15 PM

Originally Posted by burntire

Average CEO salary in the early 80's was 40 times that of the average worker.

Today it is 400 times the average worker.

Upper management gets richer as they cut your pay and benefits.

I am glad to see someone has the nuts to strike unlike the bunch of puss-y's in the Pilots Union!

Id like to address your point.

An interesting statistic I heard yesterday when I was listening to CBC1 was that the upper 5% of Canadians average 89k a year (adjusted to american dollars, although lately whats the difference?) whereas the upper 5% of Americans average 169k. Whether or not this correlates to the structure and legal abilities of unions to reign in executive salaries is unclear, but you're correct in that its rediculous that so few make so much money, especially when chances are they are the CEO or a leader of a large business.

At the same time I think some things that unions ask for are unrealistic, especially given the shape of some of the companies that rely on their labor. They tout "job security" in one breath and then in the other a laundry list of demands that a majority of people in the workforce don't get (I dont know of a single person directly that has 100% of their healthcare benefits paid, do you?). I think that this is a situation where the other demands they want are in direct contradiction with job security. If plants have to close permanently or companies go out of business, how is that protecting jobs?

My father was union at his machine shop. Yes, unions do have a time and place and in some blue collar workforces it may be appropriate. However, I have also seen firsthand the ugliness that unions bring out. Once you put in your time you don't have to care about how well you do your job because you will always have it. I've seen the effects of lazy, incompetent people bumping the hardworking (like my father, the one who would get all the hard jobs because others were too stupid/lazy to be able to do them) out of a job because they were there for 9 months longer (both were there about TEN YEARS). It's frustrating and its not right.

Yes, CEO's do make an obscene amount of money, and given how the rich elite are so well networked and connected, they don't have to care if a company goes under. They can take their golden parachute and move on to another corporation. I don't know if the typical union blue collar worker can make the same kind of move with such relative simplicity, and its irresponsible of the union to put them in the position where must count on such a luxury.

**burntire** · 09-25-2007, 07:21 PM

I know people that have 100% health care. They are pilots for Cathay Pacific Airways and Hong Kong Company. LOL

Oh yea they are based and work in the US under a subsidiary company.

Other than that I don't know anyone else. I am sure the CEOs don't pay.

**Twin01cobra** · 09-25-2007, 07:29 PM

Originally Posted by burntire

I know people that have 100% health care. They are pilots for Cathay Pacific Airways and Hong Kong Company. LOL

Oh yea they are based and work in the US under a subsidiary company.

Other than that I don't know anyone else. I am sure the CEOs don't pay.

There's always going to be some people that have 100% health care coverage but the majority of workers don't have that anymore, times have changed. I worked for a union shop years ago and to me it was no advantage, they did nothing except take union dues every month.

**Cam99** · 09-25-2007, 07:32 PM

This strike is a great way to strike a tremendous blow to a company that's already on a fine line of bankruptsy anyway. Get ready Mexico, there's going to be some new GM plants coming your way...get ready USA our taxes are going up again while unemployment rises. WOOT