Need race gas

**Rodeheaver's** · 04-01-2008, 04:29 PM

Originally Posted by 87notch

I believe it's Citgo 110 @ Freedom and as soon as it's gone he is switching to Sunoco race fuels.

thank goodness, I did not like that citco stuff at all...

**Martin0660** · 04-01-2008, 04:31 PM

Originally Posted by phillysrt4

LOL am I the only one here who has been smart/daring/crazy enough (pick your word of choice) to cut pump gas with Xylene (since you cant get Toluene anymore)?

Nah, I've tried xylene, tolune, and even a few of the rarer cocktails. I was able to fend off a little knock with them, but nothing like Torco. It seemd to me like xylene was good to add a gallon to a tank, but when I got to higher concentrations, I would loose performance, plus still see some knock.

I've kinda walked away from them since I started with Torco, and the price has gone up on Xylene to the point its not real effective any more for me.

It is funny when guys watch you pouring gallon cans of paint thinner in your tank :D

Bob Myers

**phillysrt4** · 04-01-2008, 04:35 PM

Originally Posted by Martin0660

Nah, I've tried xylene, tolune, and even a few of the rarer cocktails. I was able to fend off a little knock with them, but nothing like Torco. It seemd to me like xylene was good to add a gallon to a tank, but when I got to higher concentrations, I would loose performance, plus still see some knock.

I've kinda walked away from them since I started with Torco, and the price has gone up on Xylene to the point its not real effective any more for me.

It is funny when guys watch you pouring gallon cans of paint thinner in your tank :D

Bob Myers

My experience was different. Of course I used a much higher concentration than a gallon in a tankful, which might have been why.

As far as knock supression and the amount of power I made, there was a SOTP difference between the Xylene cocktail I made and Sunoco's 100 unleaded race fuel.

But you're right about cost. With the way prices have gone up on that stuff, its not worth it anymore unless you're really desperate and have no other sources of fuel.

BTW - the only difference between the "paint thinner" and the hydrocarbons they add to gas is that the "paint thinner" isn't taxed as fuel. Thats my understanding of it anyway.

I cant find anyone around me who has Torco, and since my current car is pretty much retired from racing, I dont get the itch as much to run race fuel in it. Its fast enough on pump gas for my commutes.

**03 OW SVT** · 04-01-2008, 04:39 PM

Originally Posted by phillysrt4

DISCLAIMER: This is for information purposes only of my previous experiences. I take no responsibility if you decide to make "Home Depot" race fuel.

That being said...

LOL am I the only one here who has been smart/daring/crazy enough (pick your word of choice) to cut pump gas with Xylene (since you cant get Toluene anymore)?

Xylene is an aromatic hydrocarbon with an octane rating of about 118. I've mixed 2.5 gallons of 93 pump gas with a gallon of Xylene and added some Marvel's Mystery Oil (about 5 capfuls) and a splash of fuel system cleaner and it let me hold my 100 octane timing map all day long.

The only downside is that xylene is really REALLY harsh on rubber fuel lines and it has no lubrication qualities, hence adding the MMO to compensate.

i bet Cam99 is having a flashback now of me pouring that mixture into my tank with this incredulous look... right before his car lost :)

Interesting

**Rio94gt** · 04-01-2008, 05:16 PM

Originally Posted by 393rag

Tom Clark Honda, or whatever the Cycle dealer on RT 51 in Belle Vernon is carries VP drums.

Nice. Thats close. Ill have to give them a call.

**Martin0660** · 04-01-2008, 05:38 PM

Originally Posted by phillysrt4

My experience was different. Of course I used a much higher concentration than a gallon in a tankful, which might have been why.

I also tried higher concentrations (5 gallons gas to 1 gallon xylene) and lost performance with my stuff. (true MPH loss, and it still lightly pinged). I settles on 1 gallon to 15 as where it had some knock supression, but didnt hurt MPH.

I did run Torco at the track on a Thursday night, ran my best ever. Didnt have any left and the tank was low, so I mixed Xylene to 5 gallons of gas and had to back 3 psi boost out to keep it from pinging.

They are all different for sure, and I never mixed it with race gas. For sure it works, and we both agree its not worth the cost anymore ;)

Bob Myers

**gmkillr** · 04-01-2008, 05:43 PM

Billy, The Marathon about 20 minutes from me sells 110 unleaded and I believe it's $5.49 a gallon. Let me know if you want some of it.

**phillysrt4** · 04-01-2008, 05:44 PM

Originally Posted by Martin0660

I also tried higher concentrations (5 gallons gas to 1 gallon xylene) and lost performance with my stuff. (true MPH loss, and it still lightly pinged). I settles on 1 gallon to 15 as where it had some knock supression, but didnt hurt MPH.

I did run Torco at the track on a Thursday night, ran my best ever. Didnt have any left and the tank was low, so I mixed Xylene to 5 gallons of gas and had to back 3 psi boost out to keep it from pinging.

They are all different for sure, and I never mixed it with race gas. For sure it works, and we both agree its not worth the cost anymore ;)

Bob Myers

hmmm... my calculations say you are just a touch over 97 octane on your mixture whereas mine was just over 100.

From what I have gathered xylene is better for being able to advance timing than it is for upping boost. I may be wrong though.

but yes, using xylene now is way cost prohibitive especially if you have alterantives nearby. For me its harder because I still run cats so I cant just go up to the 110 pump and fill up, but its still common enough I havent had to do it in a few years.

Now when the mustang project gets going, that would be interesting to try cutting some xylene in with some 100 octane unleaded to see what happens...

**phillysrt4** · 04-01-2008, 09:06 PM

Martin0660:

just doing some digging out of curiosity I found an article that supports the conclusions you made about "home depot" fuel. However, they dont cite sources or test data to back up their claims.

if you want I can link.

I just find it odd because when I mixed it in I noticed an improvement in power over Sunoco's 100 octane fuel. Weird...

**Martin0660** · 04-01-2008, 09:14 PM

I would be interested to see a link. As I said, that was my real world test data. (I take lots of notes)

Its funny you say 97 octane, that further supports the difference with Torco. When I did this, it was in my OLD TC, and I was mixing Torco to get 97 octane (only 21 psi). The Xylene should have gave me the same, but I had to pull back to 18-19 to get out of ping.

I've heard of other guys that get away with Xylene in high ratio's, even with 2.3 Fords, it just didnt work beyond that mixing ratio for me. What i wonder, is if the guys running higher mix ratios actually NEED the higher octane? I alway make my stuff with just enough to keep out of ping, but no more. I run the Capri right at 104 at 25 psi.

Bob Myers

**phillysrt4** · 04-01-2008, 09:32 PM

two things that may be different: Xylene is not 118 octane as measured (r+m)/2 or the torco netted you higher than 97 octane fuel.

My guess is the latter, because my car was VERY finicky about holding the 100 octane fuel map. I had to have the car practically out of fuel and then fill it up with at least 7 or 8 gallons of sunoco 100 octane to get it to hold the fuel map without knocking and reverting to the pump gas map.

anyway, the link I found was here:

http://www.idavette.net/hib/fuel/page2.htm

It does support your theory, but id take it with a grain of salt considering they didnt annotate exactly what sources were used to support what statements, and that their sources are two performance shops, a synthetic oil supplier, and (surprise surprise) two racing fuel companies.